Borg Warner turbo in a Turbo Buick!
- Thread starter Nick Micale
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Just a follow-up to John's post, I already have a commitment from a customer to install 3 bolt version B-W turbo on his GN.
We have just installed a fresh, killer 3.8 build engine with a matching trans and other parts in this GN.
Since this car has a new set of TA Performance headers, we plan to modify them as needed, and make a fixture to duplicate them for the B-W the ERF-7670 turbo.
A turbo support and a wastegate bracket will also be made for this application as well.
We have just installed a fresh, killer 3.8 build engine with a matching trans and other parts in this GN.
Since this car has a new set of TA Performance headers, we plan to modify them as needed, and make a fixture to duplicate them for the B-W the ERF-7670 turbo.
A turbo support and a wastegate bracket will also be made for this application as well.
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At this point I want to add some comments, as well as my opinions on this project.
My enthusiasm for the project is driven by a major factor of this turbo, and that is this turbo has a 4-bolt housing with an internal wastegate, which is controlled easily and accurately with inexpensive current boost controllers.
We can and will design, develop and build a downpipe to fit a GN with the 4 bolt housing for the 7670 turbo in a GN.
A header modification is also easily modified for the 7670 turbo keeping it relatively close to the stock location/position.
The installation in my car could be reproduced, but is not planned to be the normal street car version.
The 7870 version I am using will use a 3" air inlet, not a bulky 4" pipe which will not affect performance as the inducer is smaller than 3".
Performance is a major goal in our projects, but "simplicity" is also a major concern for fabrication, installation, removal and reliability, and of course "budget" needs to be controlled as well!
My enthusiasm for the project is driven by a major factor of this turbo, and that is this turbo has a 4-bolt housing with an internal wastegate, which is controlled easily and accurately with inexpensive current boost controllers.
We can and will design, develop and build a downpipe to fit a GN with the 4 bolt housing for the 7670 turbo in a GN.
A header modification is also easily modified for the 7670 turbo keeping it relatively close to the stock location/position.
The installation in my car could be reproduced, but is not planned to be the normal street car version.
The 7870 version I am using will use a 3" air inlet, not a bulky 4" pipe which will not affect performance as the inducer is smaller than 3".
Performance is a major goal in our projects, but "simplicity" is also a major concern for fabrication, installation, removal and reliability, and of course "budget" needs to be controlled as well!
Read reply #20 and you will see that BW is working with PTE to produce a 3 bolt exhaust housing for the Buicks.
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You know I always felt Buick owners of these cars especaially were the ones to think outside the box. That meant embracing new technology as it comes along over the past 30 years with these cars. Alky, converters, ECMs and turbos. The 4 bolt exhaust housing is much more prevalent in the industry than the three bolt on Buicks. It is very easy to adapt to it.
Look at turbos, we have gone from cast wheels to billet, journal bearings to triple ball bearings, compressor and turbine housings have changed and now the EFRs. Change your flange on the header and downpipe and you can use a turbo with built in waste gate and shaft speed sensor to boot.
This is just better performance all around with NO LAG. New car tech in a 30 year old car.
Look at turbos, we have gone from cast wheels to billet, journal bearings to triple ball bearings, compressor and turbine housings have changed and now the EFRs. Change your flange on the header and downpipe and you can use a turbo with built in waste gate and shaft speed sensor to boot.
This is just better performance all around with NO LAG. New car tech in a 30 year old car.
Paul69camaro
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Guys, as Nick and John mentioned, these EFR's are game changers. The response on my buick with the twin scroll is incredible. It used to be where you had to choose big power or fast response. That is no longer the case. I'm running the slightly larger 8374 than what Nick is doing and it spools much faster than my TE-44 did but is capable of making 750 hp.... truly remarkable. Nick, I don't know what your plans are for offering a bolt in exhaust solution but it would be really nice if you kept the exhaust separate and used a split 4 bolt flange so those who wanted to take advantage of the twin scroll housing could do so. I think it would result in the ultimate street Buicks.
Paul69camaro
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Here are a few more pics of how I modified the ATR headers. I do think that it makes more sense to mount the turbo in the Oreintation Nick chose for the reasons he stated but also because it's an extremely tight fit in the stock location. Please excuse the loose wires as it is still a work in progress.
vacuum 6
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Ok here's a stupid question. With a stock stroke built 109, heads, cam etc is there an advantage to run a 4 bolt twin scroll setup?
Paul69camaro
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Well you would get faster spool and give nothing up so I would say there is an advantage. One of the power killers in these buicks is the EGR effect you get due to the valve overlap and the high exhaust pressures. By splitting the exhaust banks you get double the time between exhaust events helping the motor bring in more fresh air instead of spent exhaust gasses. Imports have been doing the twin scroll for years with great results. This is a good read with some testing to show the difference. http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/twin-scroll-vs-single-scroll-turbo-test-the-great-divide/
Paul
Paul
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Here is a picture of Paul's engine with the BW turbo which he sent to me and thought I would share it!
Paul69camaro
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You guys please excuse all the wires. The car was just fired up about a week ago and I still haven't finished all the sensor wiring.
Nice, I worked for Borgwarner for about a year. Unfortunately, I worked doing embedded software for torque control devices. But I did send out an email to the turbo support in 2011 and asked if they had a turbo for a GN and the answer was no. Glad Borg is interested in expanding their product line to work with Turbo Regals.
My next project is to build a 3800 series 2/3 powered GN, so I would need another turbo.
My next project is to build a 3800 series 2/3 powered GN, so I would need another turbo.
achalmersman
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Interesting read about twin scroll. http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/twin-...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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It has been a while, but finally the header has been modified and is now in the final position and location.
The PS intercooler is in place and we can fit the up-pipes to the turbo and throttle body, and also fab the downpipe.
The oil feed line and drain line will also be installed as the turbo oil drain will be installed on the pan to assure good flow out of the turbo.
My hope is to have a road test in 2-3 weeks!
The PS intercooler is in place and we can fit the up-pipes to the turbo and throttle body, and also fab the downpipe.
The oil feed line and drain line will also be installed as the turbo oil drain will be installed on the pan to assure good flow out of the turbo.
My hope is to have a road test in 2-3 weeks!
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Sooooo effin' cool..........
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The car is on the lift right now so I can replace the oil pan tomorrow with one which has a fitting for the turbo oil drain, so I will take a picture in a day or 2.
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The car is on the lift right now so I can replace the oil pan tomorrow with one which has a fitting for the turbo oil drain, so I will take a picture in a day or 2.
No reason to get excited Nick, Brett is talking about the car.
NONE of us are interested in the "Micale Full Monte"..........
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I was at Nick's house the other day. Two things that really impressed me.
#1 The turbo lay out on this car.
#2 Brent actually does have a Turbo Buick.
Mike B.
#1 The turbo lay out on this car.
#2 Brent actually does have a Turbo Buick.
Mike B.
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