Breathers with PCV tube

[vacuum 6]

oil consumption

With all this talk about e-vac pumps etc...for the guys that are using e-vac systems what's your oil consumption before and after the system was installed?

 

[J-B Racing]

With all this talk about e-vac pumps etc...for the guys that are using e-vac systems what's your oil consumption before and after the system was installed?

After 2 Months, I had no loss............:smile:

 

[vacuum 6]

Ok let me re-phase prior to using an evac system, what way(s) were you losing oil? Leaks, blowing oil from dip stick and or cover(s), oil contaminated plugs (burning oil) what?

 

[Turbo1dr]

I did the same and my valve cover breathers leaked oil everytime I got into the boost. I put a crank case evac pump on. It has an IN and OUT. attach the IN hose to an elbo on one valve cover and the OUT to a catch can. The other valve cover has a open breather. The pump is actived by a hob switch which comes on at 3psi and stays on until it see's less than 3psi. Its just a 12volt pump off of a chevy Malibu or Impala V6. You have to do some slight modifications to the pump. But do it right and wire it up with a relay and mine hasnt leaked a drop since! Its cheap hp and its taking stress off of the crank case!

Jason

I must be really dumb because I see no purpose for a evac pump to stop oil from getting out of the engine...so here goes...

1. Obviously there is pressure in the crank case causing oil to spew out of the engine.

2. The vacuum pump creates a vacuum and sucks the crankcase pressure (and oil) out and spits it in a "catch can".

3. The catch can has a outlet to vent all the crankcase pressure BUT what's stopping the oil from blowing out of the catch can? There's still crankcase pressure that has to go somewhere. How do you keep the oil from venting out of the catch can? Do you have a large breather hook to the outlet? If you do why don't you just hook that up the valve cover instead of trying to pull oil out of the engine with a vacuum pump????...makes no sense to me!

Now if the only purpose in having a vacuum pump hooked to the crankcase was to increase HP then I can agree to having one...BUT how much HP is that REALLY giving you???

 

[Racetronix]

I must be really dumb because I see no purpose for a evac pump to stop oil from getting out of the engine...so here goes...

It's called an oil separator.

For example .....Lingenfelter Oil Air Vapor Separator: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering

 

[Blown&Injected]

There was oil seeping out of the driver's side breather as the stock pcv valve was sucking some oil from under the intake manifold valley area. GM should've put some kind of baffle under the intake manifold to prevent this from happening! Seeing that, I just used a push-in type breather (in which the pcv valve is mounted) on the passenger side only and connected it to the last (and larger) vacuum tube going to the vacuum block ( same place as where the stock pcv valve's hose used to be connected). I did this just prior to storing the car for the winter so I can't say how effective this will be, but I'm confident it'll be ok because if there is a little oil going into the breather, it will simply leak back inside the valve cover. I don't understand why some of you must use a vacuum pump...
Now I have a question...does someone know what kind of plug to use to cancel the hole on the intake manifold, where the pcv grommet was?
thanks

Claude :smile:

P.S: you can see the pcv valve in the breather and the hole I'd like to plug up in the "floor" of the intake manifold...

I just used a nut an bolt with washers that seal against the rubber gromet in the manifold. Crimp the threads so the nut will not fall in if the bolt loosens up

 

[Turbo1dr]

It's called an oil separator.

For example .....Lingenfelter Oil Air Vapor Separator: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering

So why can't that be used without a evac pump?

 

[ttypewhite]

I must be really dumb because I see no purpose for a evac pump to stop oil from getting out of the engine...so here goes...

1. Obviously there is pressure in the crank case causing oil to spew out of the engine.

2. The vacuum pump creates a vacuum and sucks the crankcase pressure (and oil) out and spits it in a "catch can".

3. The catch can has a outlet to vent all the crankcase pressure BUT what's stopping the oil from blowing out of the catch can? There's still crankcase pressure that has to go somewhere. How do you keep the oil from venting out of the catch can? Do you have a large breather hook to the outlet? If you do why don't you just hook that up the valve cover instead of trying to pull oil out of the engine with a vacuum pump????...makes no sense to me!

Now if the only purpose in having a vacuum pump hooked to the crankcase was to increase HP then I can agree to having one...BUT how much HP is that REALLY giving you???

In my application, I have not seen a drop of oil in my catch can so I sold it. I have got foam in my Moroso breathers that stop any oil from travelling to my pump. Not too mention I got a $365 ticket for having a catch can under my hood (vent crankcase pressure into the atmosphere ) I am sure you would probably pick up some hp from the system, but if I didn't I am still happy as ever due to no leaks. My motor has perfect compression and does not skip a beat. Its been in my car now for 8 years running mid 10's for 3 of those years and low 10's for 4 years with this year dipping into the 9's. For the price of this entire system it hard to beat. Maybe $120 for everything if you get the pump from the boneyard. The evac pump takes out crankcase pressure not oil out of the motor, and by doing so the motor is being relieved so oil doesn't have to find the leakest link to escape when under boost. I have seen guys that are using this pump in TSM and TSO, thats where I got the bug to try it for myself. So that is my personal experience with this system. Give it a try, I am most certain you will be pleased.

 

[Turbo1dr]

I have got foam in my Moroso breathers that stop any oil from travelling to my pump.

Ah, so it's the foam in yout breather that's keeping the oil from getting out of the engine and into the evac pump and catch can. Now, if you take the evac pump and the catch can off wouldn't the oil still be caught by the foam and not make it out of the breather?

I understand that if you have a properly sealed engine the pressure in the crankcase is going out of the breather along with any oil vapor. In your case, the foam is in your breather BEFORE the evac pump and catch can so it stops the oil spew and drains back into the engine....correct?

In my application, I have not seen a drop of oil in my catch can so I sold it.

Due to the foam catching the oil vapor.

The evac pump takes out crankcase pressure not oil out of the motor and by doing so the motor is being relieved so oil doesn't have to find the leakest link to escape when under boost.

A properly sealed engine shouldn't leak past the gaskets and should vent all the crankcase pressure out of a properly designed breather....like yours.


I know you can't get blow-by cured 100% so I'm glad this system is available for you guys. I think it's a "patch" of what the real problem is...crankcase pressure... which is caused by leaking valve stem seals, piston rings, intake gaskets, head gaskets, turbo inlet and exhaust seals. A breather that can stop oil from escaping yet flows well enough that it allows crankcase pressure to escape is all that's needed to keep oil IN a "sealed" engine.:smile:

 

[ttypewhite]

I did not put this system on my car because of oil coming out of my breathers( i have never had that problem even with stock breathers). The pump works well, but don't get it mixed up with some high power suction pulling oil from the motor. My engine does not have issues. Neither does some of the 9"sec and 8 sec cars using it. Its not a bandaid fix. If its not for you, then its not for you. But it is not masking any issues of blow by in the motor. I had put it on my car in hopes of relieving crank case pressure, but when I noticed I stopped the leaky valve covers and stuff like that, it was a added bonus for me. Nick Micale, Billy Anderson and many others have used these pumps and they do not have motor issues with there cars. Again its not a patch. I can say everything under the sun about it, but if your mind is already made up, its pointless.

 

[ttypewhite]

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/184176-crankcase-vacuum-pump-options.html

 

[Turbo1dr]

I can say everything under the sun about it, but if your mind is already made up, its pointless.

The point I'm trying to make is an evac pump does not cure oil consumption...which is what this thread is really about. Why is it being recommended to install on a car that has engine sealing problems??? Fix the obvious probelms first instead of installing a "patch" for it.

I still stand behind my thinking that if oil is blowing out of your valve cover breathers, due to a lot of crankcase pressure, an evac system is a PATCH for the real problem....a non sealing engine....ie...rings, head gaskets, valve stem seals....etc.

 

[Racetronix]

The point I'm trying to make is an evac pump does not cure oil consumption...which is what this thread is really about.

Was it not about vacuum 6 wanting to remove his PCV?

 

[SloGN]

The point I'm trying to make is an evac pump does not cure oil consumption...which is what this thread is really about. Why is it being recommended to install on a car that has engine sealing problems??? Fix the obvious probelms first instead of installing a "patch" for it.

I still stand behind my thinking that if oil is blowing out of your valve cover breathers, due to a lot of crankcase pressure, an evac system is a PATCH for the real problem....a non sealing engine....ie...rings, head gaskets, valve stem seals....etc.

your correct sir


i don't have any problems with oil blowing out of my breathers. I had a problem with oil blowing out of my breathers once due to a ****ty aftermarket PCV valve. when i swapped it out to a gm unit that problem went away.

 

[Turbo1dr]

Was it not about vacuum 6 wanting to remove his PCV?

Yes it was. I'll bet it's because he's trying to control oil getting out of his engine not because he wants to move it for fun. I'm just saying that selling him a evac pump and catch can isn't the cure for his real problem.

 

[Racetronix]

Not all engines seal the same and many which make good HP have a lot of crankcase pressure under WOT. That does not mean someone has a motor problem. My motor has very low leak down but it still manages to pass much vapor and oil droplets out of the breathers under WOT.
There are a fair number of people running these systems now and they stand behind the results. This discussion can easily turn into a debate reminiscent of the 'power plate'.
If someone is interested in a system like this it would be best to let the people who have actually tried it provide their input. If you don't like the idea then don't run it.
For what is is worth I have seen enough of the results and have decided to add such a system to my 87 GN. I know these electric pumps will never produce enough vacuum to make more power but if it can reduce or eliminate much of the oil issues Buick motors are notorious for I will consider it a success.
Jack

 

[vacuum 6]

Yes that is correct I’m having issues with the PCV sucking oil and at one time oil was coming out of the breathers. I’m researching alternatives for the stock PCV system. It’s obvious my engine has a seal/blow-by issue. For me as long as the engine is making HP it’s all good and until the oil consumption becomes shocking, motor is staying in.

BTW-From my understanding oil coming from the breathers was the motivation behind Champion’s breather adapter.

 

[SloGN]

Yes that is correct I’m having issues with the PCV sucking oil and at one time oil was coming out of the breathers. I’m researching alternatives for the stock PCV system. It’s obvious my engine has a seal/blow-by issue. For me as long as the engine is making HP it’s all good and until the oil consumption becomes shocking, motor is staying in.

BTW-From my understanding oil coming from the breathers was the motivation behind Champion’s breather adapter.

yes if you will look at the stock stamped rocker arms they hold a puddle of oil and @ 5k rpms thay puddle gets thrown eveywhere. If one would look at the placement of the stock oil fill hole will notice that the hole is almost over the end of a rocker arm where this puddle of oil is being thrown up to the top of the cover.

I used to have a problem with this @ the race track and i was thinking it was a blow by issue till i ran the car on the dyno with the hood up and i saw very little vapor caoming for the breathers so i know it was not a sealing isssues with the engine. When i swapped out my rocker arms to the kenne bell 1.65 roller tip rockers this problem went away.

You will also look at the TA valve covers he moved the location of the oil fill hole for this very reason i'm speaking of.