cam to block wear prevention

[tc86gn]

I would like to get everyones opinion on how to prevent the block from wearing where the cam contacts the front of it.
Is there a certain thin washer to go between them?
I have been told that a .030 hole drilled in the oil galley plug would cure the problem.
Just interested to see if anyone has cured this same problem somehow or if it is just another drawback of this block. Thanks in advance.

 

[The Radius Kid]

Interesting question.I would think that if you run a H.V. pump or a high lift cam,maybe this could be an issue.Any you guys run into this demon?

 

[tc86gn]

I am really not sure if I should mention this as I hear Kenne Bell getting slammed on this board a lot, but I am running the kenne bell Mark1TXB cam. Outdated? yes. But hey, I am gonna run it cause it meets my needs.I bought it over 2 years ago before I started finding more info on these cars when I purchased my PC. It has a .460 lift and .260 duration
I also have the high volume spacer plate and gears in the oiling system with a PTE oiling system to top it off.

 

[FJM568]

I ran a hi-vol pump on my car and also wore the cam thrust area on the front of the block...I put a new front cover(std oil pump) and made a oilite bronze thrust washer to take up the space that was worn on the block...The car isn't ready to be run yet, but hopefully will be soon...I think that Grumpy here on this board has said that he has run a thrust washer for like 5 yrs and alot of miles on one of his cars...

I think the combination of the hi-vol pump and the 981 valve springs did my block cam thrust surface in ...In addition to wiping the #3 exh lobe...

As for the KB cam, sure, it may be old school, but so is the Comp Cams 206/206 or the GS club cam 200/200...For what it's worth, the KB cam is a 208/208, with minor differences as compared to the Modern Musclecar(Ramchargers) 208/208...For what it's worth, the cam that I wiped was the MM 208/208, and I've also run the KB cam in another motor and had over 30000 miles on it and the cam still looks good(std oil pump on that motor, btw)...

Personally, if you are putting together a fresh motor with new bearings/tight clearances, I would leave the hi-vol pump off...Keep the standard oil pump...

 

[tazgn]

huh??

I'm really confused here. Are you talking about where it contacts the timing cover in the front where there is a spring device kind of providing a preload to hold the cam back in the block? It's been a while since I had a flat tappet cam in mine, but I don't remember it ever having anything hitting the front of the "block". But if it is the timing cover that you are talking about, I recommend ATR's roller cam button. It's similar to the stock setup, except the flat thrust surface rotates independently of the spring side. So there is no where to the timing cover. I have this with the roller setup and I have no wear at all on the timing cover anymore. I may be out to lunch completely with all this, but I just don't remember any cam touching the front of the block....

Derrick

 

[FJM568]

The front of the block is used as a "thrust" surface for the cam...The part of the cam that the cam timing gear bolts to has a flange with a "bearing" surface on it that spins against the front of the block with a film of oil between the block and the cam...

The cam bumper button is another subject...

 

[tazgn]

The Light goes ON!!

Ahh, I know what everyone's talking about now. I was thinking the thrust going the other way.

I don't know if it can be done with a cam not designed for it, but the roller setup does come with a thin thrust washer that goes between the cam and block there. Does the block really wear wight there normally? I've never heard of any wear there and didn't see any on mine. I would think it would get plenty of oil since that cam bearing gets fed with oil first in the motor.

But, back under the rock now...

Derrick

 

[FJM568]

Normally, it wouldn't get worn there...But somehow, mine did...Hopefully, I have corrected the problem...

 

[tc86gn]

Thanks for all the input guys. Ya, the front of my block is worn a little. I think I am gonna go with the thrust washer and a .030 hole in the oil galley plug that way I can put the worry out of my mind.
I am glad no one slammed me about the Kenne Bell cam. I bought all of my parts some time ago. When I finally got on the internet and got connected with all of these supply sources I found out that I had been caught in a time warp. I see all of the stuff that most of you guys are running and wish I had waited to purchase all of my stuff. Oh well Live and learn.
I don't know for sure if the block had already been wore there or if it happened with the KB cam as I got this block from somebody else. The cam looks fine though.
I guess I can pack the high volume kit away for another future build if you guys think that is a good idea.

 

[FJM568]

I would be wary about drilling a .030 hole in the lifter galley plug...Definately would not do it on the passenger side, as you are bleeding pressure off of the galley that feeds your mains and rods, and wouldn't do it on the driver's side either, because IMO, that darn #3 exh lobe/lifter needs all the da*n oil it can get...If anything, I would put a slight groove(not very deep) in the front cam bearing towards the thrust face of the cam flange just big enough so that it would dribble oil down the front of the block cam thrust surface...

 

[tc86gn]

This sounds like a good idea. Is this something I should have the machine shop do now while the block is there or can I do it myself? I think I should let him do it.What dimensions would you suggest so I could give him a call and ask him to do it? Also if this was done, Should I forget about a thrust washer? sorry about all the questions just want to get it right.

 

[FJM568]

hmmm...not too sure, I haven't done it but now I can't remember who had suggested to try it(but definately was a Buick guy)...It wouldn't need to be very deep, maybe .010-.015 at the most and probably just as wide...but I wouldn't go across the whole bearing, but maybe 2/3 of the way across and at the 6 o'clock position with the engine upright...

The thing about drilling the hole in the galley plug sounds like something that would be done on a Chevy since their oil pumps feed the mains and rods first and the lifter galleys last...Buicks are definately a different animal...

Did you say you had the hi-vol pump on there and then when you tore it apart, you noticed some wear to the cam bearings and block face??? If so, I would not put the hi-vol pump back on, I would put the std pump back in(which is what I'm doing) and put it back together and not worry too much about it...Personally, in my case, I think that running the hi-vol pump put too much pressure on the cam sensor drive gear and drove the cam back into the block...I also saw some wear at the 6 o'clock position on the cam bearing on mine too...Going back to a standard pump is something that I think will help me out, much like the 455 Buick motor should not be run with the hi-vol oil pump because it will DESTROY the front cam bearing and/or the distributor drive gear...The BB Buick just don't need a hi-vol pump, like the V6 motor, IMO...Live and learn the hard way, I guess(The std 455 oil pump uses the same length gears as the hi-vol pump gears for the V6/small V8)...The Buick V6 pump is the same pump that was used in the small block Buick V8(300, 340, 350) and was more than adequite for the small V8, as long as the bearing clearances and the oil pump clearances were okay...But on a fresh motor with tight clearances and a good timing cover/oil pump clearances, a standard pump will supply more than enough oil pressure and volume for a "little" V6...Just MO...

 

[tc86gn]

This all sounds like excellent advice. Thanks for the explanation. I think I am gonna go back to the stock gears. I will give my machinist a call in the morning. Good luck with your build also.