Can *WE*

[bruce]

Can we as a community turn back the clock a little?.
The phrase of Fast with Class, has just about been lost, IMO.
It just seems there is so much moaning and whining lately that I wonder what is going on here. Everyone's a victim, and few have anything nice to say about anyone. I used to cruise thru here, and really wanted to contribute, but anymore in reading thru the new posts, it's really getting to be depressing. And frankly life is just too short to spend reading crappe that is depressing, well at least for me.

If someone gets taken to the cleaners, due to a miscommunication, IMO, they have nothing to come over here and whine about. Someone not delivering the goods of course is a valid complaint, but the continual gripping about something not being as expected, well, you should have been more clear in your communications with the seller.

And running down some one that's passed away that you don't even know, is about the most dispicable thing I can imagine. Good grief the guy/gal is dead. Let it rest. ESPCIALLY if you're clueless about what they've done during the course of their life.
And the jealousy, and envy is just over the top. If you can't congratulate someone for what they've done, please just go find some other *net* group and voice your opionions, and ignorance over there.

I have my Nomex on, so if you feel you want to take me to task, well go ahead.
Maybe it's in part the New Year, but, I miss alot of the old timers.
I know at times, I may seem like I'm being short or have a tude, but that's just what people tend to see in my brevity of how I write.
Anyway, Happy New Years to all, and I hope this is enough incentive for some folks to help, with trying to restore the Fast with Class Attitude. And helping isn't just in what you post, it's reminding others of their, IMO, obligation to maintain an adult presence amongst us.

 

[N2HIPSI]

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[striker_29]

We do need to try and get back to the way things used to be around here. I miss some of the old timers too, its definately not the same board these days. I just wonder how long this thread will last before someone hijacks it with a bunch of whining. Hopefully that won't happen. Bruce has a good point guys, lets try to heed it.

 

[TurboJim]

Way to go Bruce!

Good points Bruce. And I apologize for whatever I may have said to you that has caused an end our email BS sssions. you're a really bright guy, maybe genuis, but genius' are usually dull, which you are not, and despite the fact I really dont understand much of what you write about, I read everything I can about your experiments.

I'd love to get back to the times of old, when we talked about innovation, improvement, and all the good times we have with our hobby. Like when gnttype was first born. I believe I was somewhere around member 300, when minds like Jay Carter, Ken Mosher, Tom Chou, Dave Buckshaw, Carl Ijames, and Mike Pitts all had real innovative Buick content, and shared all kinds of really interesting information. It seems that gnttype may be going by the wayside, so boards like this one here will be our main method of communication. I have met some very close friends thru the internet, and I miss those days.

The vendor deals are BS. If you go to Pathmark and get a jug of spoiled milk, you dont post here about it, so why does everything else get posted? I agree its getting to be a real bore. Deal with it yer damn selves, you're a grown up now!

I too would like to wish a Happy New Year, and good health (which IS better than simply good fortune) to all my TR friends around the world.

Jim

 

[GRAYGHOST]

I agree with you 110% also bruce, but you forgot one of the biggest problems, people replying to posts in a negative manner if it was not directed towards them. Not trying to get this going any further than that, but I don't know how many times people get themselves involved in a discussion, get bent out of shape about it when it was not even having anything to do with them in the first place........

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!!

 

[SinistrV6]

I, too, would agree with all of this. If you're not sure whether or not to post on a subject; put it to this simple test.
1. Is what I want to post of no benefit to anyone but me?
2. Does it make me feel better at the expense of others?
3. Am I adding my opinion when it hasn't been solicited?

If you answered "YES" to ALL of these simple questions, you probably shouldn't add to the post. If you can honestly answer "NO" to even one of them, then you may be making a valuable contribution to a thread.

BTW, even in the "Turbo Lounge" there is such a thing as going too far. No need to be nasty or alienate other members.

The above is worth exactly what you paid for it. Use it or not, just trying to help. <<---- This post passed my tests (2 out of 3)

 

[Rick]

Never mind

 

[Otto J]

And running down some one that's passed away that you don't even know, is about the most dispicable thing I can imagine. Good grief the guy/gal is dead. Let it rest. ESPCIALLY if you're clueless about what they've done during the course of their life.
And the jealousy, and envy is just over the top. If you can't congratulate someone for what they've done, please just go find some other *net* group and voice your opionions, and ignorance over there.


I rescinded my statement,But we know that was a poke at me
And jealousy has nothing to do with it,so dig a little deeper or let it rest
Otto
Maybe it sould be "at least running 10's with class"
That would be considered fast

 

[JRSGN]

Bruce,
Bare with me on this:

Can we as a community turn back the clock a little?.
The phrase of Fast with Class, has just about been lost, IMO.
It just seems there is so much moaning and whining lately that I wonder what is going on here. Everyone's a victim, and few have anything nice to say about anyone. I used to cruise thru here, and really wanted to contribute, but anymore in reading thru the new posts, it's really getting to be depressing. And frankly life is just too short to spend reading crappe that is depressing, well at least for me.

>>>> I Agree on the 1st part about the FWC, BUt There has been Legitimate beefs brought up about vendors,buyers & Scamartists that are very informative That helps the Community (IMO). I think that you can't have it smelling like a rose all the time. As far as it goes reading thru the crap, Go buy a paper, the 1st 7 pages are all about it.

If someone gets taken to the cleaners, due to a miscommunication, IMO, they have nothing to come over here and whine about. Someone not delivering the goods of course is a valid complaint, but the continual gripping about something not being as expected, well, you should have been more clear in your communications with the seller.

>>>>>I agree. But again It's a BB & sometimes it's nice to vent..TO A POINT.

And running down some one that's passed away that you don't even know, is about the most dispicable thing I can imagine. Good grief the guy/gal is dead. Let it rest. ESPCIALLY if you're clueless about what they've done during the course of their life.
And the jealousy, and envy is just over the top. If you can't congratulate someone for what they've done, please just go find some other *net* group and voice your opionions, and ignorance over there.

>>>> I think (Know) that the person that this is Aimed at Rectified that...Hopefully you read that.

I have my Nomex on, so if you feel you want to take me to task, well go ahead.
Maybe it's in part the New Year, but, I miss alot of the old timers.
I know at times, I may seem like I'm being short or have a tude, but that's just what people tend to see in my brevity of how I write.
Anyway, Happy New Years to all, and I hope this is enough incentive for some folks to help, with trying to restore the Fast with Class Attitude. And helping isn't just in what you post, it's reminding others of their, IMO, obligation to maintain an adult presence amongst us.

>>>>I think everyone needs to take a breath & think before they post, But this is not Bible study & you should not be punished for speaking your mind.I also think that you should be able to have a little fun, Remember It's a Car.

JMO

Jim

 

[Buicksx2]

Originally posted by JRSGN
Remember It's a Car.

>>>> Thats what I told Unkie almost 4 years ago......yet to no avail.

 

[Alky V6]

Rumors

A wise old racer recently told me the 3 important rules for rumors.

1. Go directly to the person the rumor is about.

2. Ask this same person if the rumor is true.

3. Ask yourself, if by passing this rumor along, does it only help everyone.

Very wise man indeed and proud to know him.

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by JRSGN
Bruce,
>>>> I Agree on the 1st part about the FWC, BUt There has been Legitimate beefs brought up about vendors,buyers & Scamartists that are very informative That helps the Community (IMO). I think that you can't have it smelling like a rose all the time. As far as it goes reading thru the crap, Go buy a paper, the 1st 7 pages are all about it.

>>>>>I agree. But again It's a BB & sometimes it's nice to vent..TO A POINT.

>>>> I think (Know) that the person that this is Aimed at Rectified that...Hopefully you read that.

>>>>I think everyone needs to take a breath & think before they post, But this is not Bible study & you should not be punished for speaking your mind.I also think that you should be able to have a little fun, Remember It's a Car.

I was very specific about what valid complaints were acceptable, other then that, IMO, folks need to just chill a little. If someone advertises something for sale, it's a 50/50 about communicating. If someone's just not happy and refuses to take any responsibility for what they did wrong, and whines, it's out of place in my book.

Venting is too often an excuse for bad behavior, and as adults there is no need for it. Life ain't fair, so we all need to just deal with it. We're all tossed into rough situations, how you deal with them define who you are. Life's full of options, if folks want to whine, there are towels at other boards, to cry on.

There is such a thing as Freedom of Speach in this country, **BUT** there are penalties for overstepping the bounds of common sense and decency. If in doubt, try yelling fire in a packed theater, it's illegal and IMO justifbly so. As I recall there are also standards for what considered decent behavior here, and again IMO the ought to be tightened up some to let folks know they are expected to behave in a manner reflecting some Class.

I do read the paper, past the first 7 pages, so what?.
Like I said for those that want to ignore the Class portion of Fast with Class, fine, go buy something other then a TR. And there are lots of lists where folks are willing to dish out all kinds of sympathy for all the unfairness of life. Trouble is all the sympathy in the world isn't going to make anyone a better person. BTW, condolences, IMO, isn't about sympathy, it's expressing grief shared with someone.

And again I stress using the words Acting like Adults. Let me change that to, Acting Like Mature Adults.

There's a growing list of people that are no longer here, and some of those gents have contributed ALOT to the TR community. And I know of several that did leave because of the way things were going on several of the TR lists. And the excuse of well, it's happening all over, is fine, if your into accepting excuses, for poor judgement. Some latitude is reasonable, but again, there is no need to let things just slide, cause no one wants to do anything.

If it's going to be just about a car, as you suggest, then lets leave all the non-tech stuff for the other boards. The TR community is about people, now it's a matter of who we are, and how we act in public. If everything is a go, and no one cares, then the list is doomed, but so far the opinions seem to favor getting back in step with who we were, and taking a step back in that direction.

 

[The Radius Kid]

Re: Rumors

Originally posted by DonWG
A wise old racer recently told me the 3 important rules for rumors.

1. Go directly to the person the rumor is about.

2. Ask this same person if the rumor is true.

3. Ask yourself, if by passing this rumor along, does it only help everyone.

Very wise man indeed and proud to know him.

This helps tremendously when the poor guy hasn't even heard about it yet.
Amazing what you learn if you ask the right people.

 

[JRSGN]

I was very specific about what valid complaints were acceptable, other then that, IMO, folks need to just chill a little. If someone advertises something for sale, it's a 50/50 about communicating. If someone's just not happy and refuses to take any responsibility for what they did wrong, and whines, it's out of place in my book.

>>>> Yes Valid complaints. YES, Take Responsiblity for you own actions. I agree.

Venting is too often an excuse for bad behavior, and as adults there is no need for it. Life ain't fair, so we all need to just deal with it. We're all tossed into rough situations, how you deal with them define who you are. Life's full of options, if folks want to whine, there are towels at other boards, to cry on.

>>>> Well I admit it,Your a better man than me. If I have a bad day @ work I come home & yell @ the TV.

There is such a thing as Freedom of Speach in this country, **BUT** there are penalties for overstepping the bounds of common sense and decency. If in doubt, try yelling fire in a packed theater, it's illegal and IMO justifbly so. As I recall there are also standards for what considered decent behavior here, and again IMO the ought to be tightened up some to let folks know they are expected to behave in a manner reflecting some Class.

>>>> That goes for EVERYONE. No Exceptions.

I do read the paper, past the first 7 pages, so what?

>>>>>Meaning the 1st 7 pages are misery...

Like I said for those that want to ignore the Class portion of Fast with Class, fine, go buy something other then a TR. And there are lots of lists where folks are willing to dish out all kinds of sympathy for all the unfairness of life. Trouble is all the sympathy in the world isn't going to make anyone a better person. BTW, condolences, IMO, isn't about sympathy, it's expressing grief shared with someone.

And again I stress using the words Acting like Adults. Let me change that to, Acting Like Mature Adults.

AGREE 100%

There's a growing list of people that are no longer here, and some of those gents have contributed ALOT to the TR community. And I know of several that did leave because of the way things were going on several of the TR lists. And the excuse of well, it's happening all over, is fine, if your into accepting excuses, for poor judgement. Some latitude is reasonable, but again, there is no need to let things just slide, cause no one wants to do anything.

>>>>> It is a shame..hopefully they will come back....

If it's going to be just about a car, as you suggest, then lets leave all the non-tech stuff for the other boards. The TR community is about people, now it's a matter of who we are, and how we act in public. If everything is a go, and no one cares, then the list is doomed, but so far the opinions seem to favor getting back in step with who we were, and taking a step back in that direction.

>>>>> The thing about is the BB's is it's a exchange of ideas both good & bad, that will help us all. Hopefully we can decifer whats good & use it..

thanks Bruce...

jim

 

[Otto J]

Originally posted by bruce

Like I said for those that want to ignore the Class portion of Fast with Class, fine, go buy something other then a TR.

That was about the dumbest statement ive seen you write yet.

I dont believe when Buick sold these cars people had to fill out an application showing the "Class" of people they would be while owning one.

Going fast with class should go along with any make or model of automobile or lifestyle, "Going Fast With Class" Was also just a saying someone thought up along the way because the Buick was sort of a luxery car at the time.It wasnt because of what peoples opinions would be say,20 years later.
Otto

 

[Buicksx2]

Just my 2 cents in regards to Fast with Class.

Let me first start by saying I type this not as a flame (typing in a slow, calm manner) but rather an observation as an outsider looking in, personal experience and comparable situations.

A couple years ago it's been no secret that four of my friends and myself got tossed from the GSCA BB and have had at that time posts deleted because the words written didn't agree mostly with a certain moderator. If you had your own thought or opinion that was contrary to him or the GSCA club it was tossed and when you would ask why you never got an answer.

To make a long story short due to the efforts of the head of the GSCA all five of us have been reinstated........enough of that.

About a week or so I posted back on thread, I forgot which on and I stated that it sounded like GSCA-Lite in here at times lately. I got an email from Nick asking me what I meant by that comment (in a nice manner I might add and not confrontational). I replied back stating that at times recently on here that the actions of posts and threads being deleted and folks not being able to state their experiences with vendors mirrored what I have seen on the GSCA BB a couple years ago. People's perceptions are realities.

I said to Nick I hoped that TB.com does not become what the GSCA BB was for awhile a couple years ago.

Things are said in haste, heat of the moment whatever and none of us are immune to doing that, god know I am as guilty as the next but the TR community is small and we can all learn from each other on here in all areas.

So like Bruce said life aint fair and ya have to deal with it so basically post where you want to post whatever BB that is, buy parts from vendors you want to buy from, race at whatever Buick event you want to race at, put whatever parts you want on your car and live a long happy life.............because as I told the Dale Carnegie class during the last speech of the last class: "Kids remember on your death bed does all this really matter".......with that I got a SO and left the building.......j/k.

 

[Sleeper]

I agree with you Bruce. All this back biting, bickering, unfounded gossip, and unsolicited slaging needs to come to an end. It is tearing this community apart, and a lot of really bright and talented people are just walking away.

I remember reading about the opening of this board over on the "big board," and coming over here and just reading. I poured through the archives, gathering all the info I could, before I even made my first post. A lot of really bright people hung out here at the time, and I was helped by many. I now just skim over most of the posts, not wanting to read about the negativity and nonsense, and post very little.

We have lost sight of why we are all here... The love and passion we all share for this unique automotive marvel.
There will always be differing opinions... But can't we just agree to disagree without hurling insults or threats at each other?
There seems to be a lot of suppressed anger floating around, and almost any excuse is used to vent it. And there are those that just enjoy stirring it up, starting rumors, lighting fuses, and playing pile on. Once the fuse has been lit, pride and ego rear their ugly heads and then in the heat of the moment, words are said that are hard to take back. Friends become enemies over the gossip and hearsay of others.

I hate using paraphrased cliché's but... "thinking before speaking," seems to fit.
And "if you don't have anything nice to say..."


I know that I am repeating a lot of what others have already voiced, but I just wanted to speak out and be heard as well.

This is a New Year.
Maybe, with a switch to decaf, we can turn things around.

Paul

 

[bakerlaw67]

Being something of a lurker, I have "zero" credibilty here, BUT it seems to me that if you have a section for "off topic" posting, and impose NO restrictions, you will get exactly what you are asking for.

My simple-minded suggestion to deal with buyer/seller complaints is to have a TBBBB (Turbo Buick Better Business Bureau) section and only allow a person to submit some kind of pre-approved (sticky) form or list of "offenses" where a person could allege SPECIFIC issues about a buyer/seller (goods damaged, no contact, bad description, all of the above, etc). And to allow for a peaceful resolution, it can be done no sooner than 14 days after the "offense". No editorializing allowed, simply a statement of facts. A single pre-approved response form (no contact from other party, no payment, attempting to resolve, etc) is the only posted response to a complaint. NO JUDGING AND NOBODY JUMPING ON THE BANDWAGON.

If others want more information (or to meddle or stir the pot), inquiries could be dealt with by private e-mail between board users (keeping people from ganging up or posting their opinions here without pertinent facts), and keeping the discussion away from *we* who aren't interested. It would also work as a kind of feedback area because members could look at these FACTS and the RESPONSES and decide for themselves (after further investigation on their own if desired) whether to do business with either party! *WE* have something similar in the "real" world (as opposed to the "regal world") It's called civil procedure, and while it has its HUGE problems, nobody has come up with anything better.
When we don't like what people do, and they refuse to change their behavior, we segregate them. Some people call it rehabilitation, but when I "segregate" people, I call it jail. Here they are left to interefere with everybody's quiet enjoyment of the board.

Gotta admit that the "buy something else" comment was pretty weak. Owning a TB, doesn't grant me a right to do or say anything, but ownership should not necessarily carry with it an arbitrary duty to live my life with "class". If the established rules for posting aren't followed, somebody needs to take corrective action on the offender.

I too miss those old-timers Common Sense, Courtesy and Honor. I hope that they return before too long.

He walks away wiping the Tide powder and cardboard off the bottom of his shoes. (You never should have let a lawyer in here!)

 

[Bobtempest]

Originally posted by Sleeper
I agree with you Bruce. All this back biting, bickering, unfounded gossip, and unsolicited slaging needs to come to an end. It is tearing this community apart, and a lot of really bright and talented people are just walking away.

I remember reading about the opening of this board over on the "big board," and coming over here and just reading. I poured through the archives, gathering all the info I could, before I even made my first post. A lot of really bright people hung out here at the time, and I was helped by many. I now just skim over most of the posts, not wanting to read about the negativity and nonsense, and post very little.

We have lost sight of why we are all here... The love and passion we all share for this unique automotive marvel.
There will always be differing opinions... But can't we just agree to disagree without hurling insults or threats at each other?
There seems to be a lot of suppressed anger floating around, and almost any excuse is used to vent it. And there are those that just enjoy stirring it up, starting rumors, lighting fuses, and playing pile on. Once the fuse has been lit, pride and ego rear their ugly heads and then in the heat of the moment, words are said that are hard to take back. Friends become enemies over the gossip and hearsay of others.

I hate using paraphrased cliché's but... "thinking before speaking," seems to fit.
And "if you don't have anything nice to say..."


I know that I am repeating a lot of what others have already voiced, but I just wanted to speak out and be heard as well.

This is a New Year.
Maybe, with a switch to decaf, we can turn things around.

Paul

I agree 100% with Bruce and Paul. I also get sick of some of the personal slams on here that are put out in a smart ass way to make fun of a person, sometimes in an indirect way. That also is out of line.
We are a small group and I wish everyone would show some class.
Helping each other is how we have survived and performed so well.

 

[BlownZ]

I like Buicks! They sure do go fast! Anyone else own one?