Can *WE*

[Mr. Tee]

I think "WE" can't get a long...

What I have noticed from the threads I have been reading and the few I post in is this:

Those with a billion post or have some sort of power on this site establish an opinion...If you don't agree with it you will immediately be stoned, and all the followers of the leaders will stone as well starting a small war...This war usually ends with less people than it started with because some just decide to leave...Not having the ability to express your opinion in a LOUNGE gets annoying....

Well my $.02 added...

Start hurling the stones...
<ducks>

 

[bruce]

One other thought.
Of the people we've lost, what do you think they've done?
Given up reading code, or being inventive?.
Nope, of the ones I know, they have a passion for that stuff, and continue doing it. BUT, they don't share what they've found, here. So ya, go ahead, feel free to speack your mind, but long term you just might be really hurting yourself, and the community as a whole.

Society, has evolved thur the contributions of people. If you don't want to contribute, that's an option, but acting irresponsible, and causing the rest to suffer because of you attitude is just being selfish.

 

[kenmosher]

Re: Way to go Bruce!

Originally posted by TurboJim
Good points Bruce.

AMEN!

It seems that gnttype may be going by the wayside, so boards like this one here will be our main method of communication.

Actually, we've spent a fair amount of time this holiday porting over everything to a new box I donated and I'll have the new router and "pipe" configured here next week. There will probably be some glitches with stuff as it rolls over, but GNTTYPE should be around for quite awhile yet!

Speaking of which ... part of the porting effort was to get it on a Windblows platform .. interested in doing some web works?

Happy New Years to all!

 

[NASSTY]

Re: Re: Way to go Bruce!

Originally posted by kenmosher
Originally posted by TurboJim
Good points Bruce.

AMEN!

It seems that gnttype may be going by the wayside, so boards like this one here will be our main method of communication.

Actually, we've spent a fair amount of time this holiday porting over everything to a new box I donated and I'll have the new router and "pipe" configured here next week. There will probably be some glitches with stuff as it rolls over, but GNTTYPE should be around for quite awhile yet!

Speaking of which ... part of the porting effort was to get it on a Windblows platform .. interested in doing some web works?

Happy New Years to all!

Glad to hear GNTTYPE.org isn't going anywhere.It's still a very informative site and I'd hate to see it go.Ken,that's great news.

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by bakerlaw67
.....My simple-minded suggestion to deal with buyer/seller complaints is to have a TBBBB (Turbo Buick Better Business Bureau) section and only allow a person to submit some kind of pre-approved (sticky) form or list of "offenses" where a person could allege SPECIFIC issues about a buyer/seller (goods damaged, no contact, bad description, all of the above, etc). .....
........ .

This has been tried in the past and recently discussed it again. With proper controls, guidelines, it may be a good plan. The recent controversial threads have been primarily about vendors and their performance, or lack of. Your plan has much merit and will be considered, thanks for the participation.

On a similar note, the tech areas needs to be just that, no cute comments about your buddy's girlfriend or the like. Opinions are welcome in those forums, and usually, there is more than one way to solve a problem or do a performance build.

The Lounge is for "off topic" discussion and there ARE restrictions. Most prominant is the guideline of "PG" material, and NO personal attacks.

I hope this thread continues to attract others to speak out even if a "lurker". No one has zero credibility, all members have a voice, and we do listen.

 

[Gary Wells]

I, also, would like to see gnttype.org stay around for the duration. It is very informative, and I do not see anything taking it's place in that respect.

 

[XXQUICK6XX]

GN/T-Type

Glad to hear the info Ken.

Steve

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by Mr. Tee
Not having the ability to express your opinion in a LOUNGE gets annoying....

No one has said anything about not being able to express an opinion, only that it should maintain some degree of decency.

There is a way to word things, if someone doesn't want to agree with someone fine, have a discussion. If you see something that you think needs discussed start an INDEPENDENT thread, and the debate the issue. Like what's by in large been happening here. If you look at the replies, it seems obvious at least to me the majority of people do feel that things do need to change, and that the rules already exist, but just need to be enforced. Rudness, and fighting aren't allowed, and there are some folks that are just baiting, or trolling for that here.

Lots of things are annoying, IMO.
Being civil or polite is just part of getting along.

 

[TurboJim]

Well, its kinda like the guest that comes to your house. He dont abide by your rules, he can GTF out. Same applies to you all who feel that you DESERVE to be here. If you dont like the rules, GTF out. Dont come back and post when it suits you, get out and stay out. Save the bandwidth for people who actually have something to offer.

Sorry to get tough in your thread Bruce, but the whining has started....even in this thread. "well, I wanna say whatever I wannntttt" <--whining voice The other boards allow it <--still whining. I dont like it here, its like communist russia <--more whining

Look, guys, Bruce made a point, most of us think he's right. The whiners who are always being reprimanded are here complaining about it. Surprise surprise?

Lets all get along. Do unto others and all that jazz. Keep it clean and lets enjoy ourselves.

 

[Bobtempest]

Originally posted by bruce
No one has said anything about not being able to express an opinion, only that it should maintain some degree of decency.

There is a way to word things, if someone doesn't want to agree with someone fine, have a discussion. If you see something that you think needs discussed start an INDEPENDENT thread, and the debate the issue. Like what's by in large been happening here. If you look at the replies, it seems obvious at least to me the majority of people do feel that things do need to change, and that the rules already exist, but just need to be enforced. Rudness, and fighting aren't allowed, and there are some folks that are just baiting, or trolling for that here.

Lots of things are annoying, IMO.
Being civil or polite is just part of getting along.

I believe most people on this board that are mature people completely agree with you! I see other make boards that are full of useless crap with post after post, that amounts to nothing and should be in a chat room if anywhere. Mostly a waste of time to try to read.
I for one am glad there are some guide lines here to keep somewhat of a focus. There are plenty of places to go just talk trash and chat. You can disagree with anyone and anything but still do it with a little class and consideration. I think that is what this is all about; a lot of undeserved people can get hurt without it. As always, I have known a lot of good guys over the years that put their keyboard in their mouth. I still believe in direct contact like an email or phone call if I feel that strong about something or someone. Just think before you type, Simple enough?

 

[sixgun86gn]

I think there are a lot of great people on this board,and I respect their ideas and opinions.The major problem I have seen is the people with the hair triggered vendor bashing.They start screaming if something doesn't get there in 20 minutes after they order like Pizza Hut.This is usually with the higher end products that are hand made and very well at that.Usually stuff thats on shelf you never hear about it because it goes out right away.People should add patience to this list and stop being so quick to cry wolf.

I would like to thank all of those on this board that have taken me from stock to mid 11s and still getting faster with their advise.I would be lost without all of the free and open advise I have recieved.Maybe someday I can give back.I hope that this board and others like it exist for a long time to come.It has to...somebody has to help me get into the 8s!lol

I agree with you Bruce we should have some class at all times on this board.

 

[GNSCOTT]

Bickering and personal slams, hidden diggs, etc have been going on since the internet started. Fast with class doesn't mean the people who drive the cars, its means going fast in a luxury sedan, I know, try selling car parts on Ebay and see what kind of class is out there, and its no different from any other car make. As for a TB better business bureau, I think its a HORRIBLE idea. First your on a board run by Vendors and its already become a concern by some that that much power is not good for the community and now you want rock solid rules that allow only them to deceide weather or not a vendor should be exposed for bad dealings. That will surely cause alot more people to be ripped off. A vendor will think twice about ripping someone off if he knows he will be raked over the keyboard coals. Posts are made to let everyone deceide for themselves if the person did another wrong.

If you want a pretty BB just get rid of the lounge. That would solve just about every problem there is. You have to take the good with the bad, ying and yang, etc. W/out people complaining, you'd still be waiting for your CAS V2 intercooler, or you bowling greens custom intake. Sorry, JMHO

 

[Mr. Tee]

Originally posted by GNSCOTT
Bickering and personal slams, hidden diggs, etc have been going on since the internet started. Fast with class doesn't mean the people who drive the cars, its means going fast in a luxury sedan, I know, try selling car parts on Ebay and see what kind of class is out there, and its no different from any other car make. As for a TB better business bureau, I think its a HORRIBLE idea. First your on a board run by Vendors and its already become a concern by some that that much power is not good for the community and now you want rock solid rules that allow only them to deceide weather or not a vendor should be exposed for bad dealings. That will surely cause alot more people to be ripped off. A vendor will think twice about ripping someone off if he knows he will be raked over the keyboard coals. Posts are made to let everyone deceide for themselves if the person did another wrong.

If you want a pretty BB just get rid of the lounge. That would solve just about every problem there is. You have to take the good with the bad, ying and yang, etc. W/out people complaining, you'd still be waiting for your CAS V2 intercooler, or you bowling greens custom intake. Sorry, JMHO

well put... I agree

 

[Otto J]

Originally posted by GNSCOTT
Bickering and personal slams, hidden diggs, etc have been going on since the internet started. Fast with class doesn't mean the people who drive the cars, its means going fast in a luxury sedan, I know, try selling car parts on Ebay and see what kind of class is out there, and its no different from any other car make. As for a TB better business bureau, I think its a HORRIBLE idea. First your on a board run by Vendors and its already become a concern by some that that much power is not good for the community and now you want rock solid rules that allow only them to deceide weather or not a vendor should be exposed for bad dealings. That will surely cause alot more people to be ripped off. A vendor will think twice about ripping someone off if he knows he will be raked over the keyboard coals. Posts are made to let everyone deceide for themselves if the person did another wrong.

If you want a pretty BB just get rid of the lounge. That would solve just about every problem there is. You have to take the good with the bad, ying and yang, etc. W/out people complaining, you'd still be waiting for your CAS V2 intercooler, or you bowling greens custom intake. Sorry, JMHO

Heck ya Scott, That the best ive seen it put.
Get Rid of the lounge,So the only topic is turbobuicks.Way less crap to be had.If you have something to say about another subject, Go find a board that deals in it.

 

[Red Regal T]

I know that sometimes there are disagreements here on the board. People offer their opinions. Sometimes, members disagree. Some guys argue with one another and some are even rude. Some people get put in their place. So what. That's life. This ain't the holy grail. I don't see that there are enough problems to warrant this thread. Must be a slow weekend. In fact, it IS a slow weekend. Knock yourselves out!

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by GNSCOTT
............... As for a TB better business bureau, I think its a HORRIBLE idea. First your on a board run by Vendors and its already become a concern by some that that much power is not good for the community and now you want rock solid rules that allow only them to deceide weather or not a vendor should be exposed for bad dealings. That will surely cause alot more people to be ripped off. A vendor will think twice about ripping someone off if he knows he will be raked over the keyboard coals. Posts are made to let everyone deceide for themselves if the person did another wrong. ..........................

You certainly are entitled to your opinion, but based upon the response in this thread and the private e-mails we have received, your opinion is part of a very small minority.

Please provide me with just one example of how the owner or administration of this board have used our "power" to shield a vendor problem of yours or anyone else? Your statement has no basis in fact and has been used by others here on this list and elsewhere that only tried to cause turmoil.

A board like this takes lots of capital to establish and fund, so most likely owners are businessmen. I have been "doing" Buicks before there were turbo Buicks, and the other admin people are VERY loyal and enthusiastic, long-time Buick owners. That is why we do this for no paycheck.

My life and businesses have always been honest and fair and that is the way we administer the board. Are you saying Bruce, and the moderators are being "bribed" by vendors or slanting things for specific vendors? NO vendors, list advertisers or not, will be "raked over the keyboard coals" here. That is not the way we plan to do business.

You do not know any of us personally, but are willing to make a public statement that we try NOT to be fair and honest in our methods and dealings? Fortunately, the majority of the members of this board have put trust in the way we operate, and that is the way we will continue.

I commend Bruce P. for this thread as it shows how much concern members have for what we do and how we go about doing it. This board is not about vendors, it is about people, and mainly ones that have a great interest in cars, especially turbo Buicks.

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by KLHAMMETT
That was about the dumbest statement ive seen you write yet.

I dont believe when Buick sold these cars people had to fill out an application showing the "Class" of people they would be while owning one.

Going fast with class should go along with any make or model of automobile or lifestyle, "Going Fast With Class" Was also just a saying someone thought up along the way because the Buick was sort of a luxery car at the time.It wasnt because of what peoples opinions would be say,20 years later.
Otto

I've given this some thought, and ignoring your obvious attempt of trolling, I'll say this,

While maybe you don't agree with me, at least what I said wasn't personal. I started a seperate thread and until you laid claim for being the originator of original source of one of the board's problem posts, not every one knew it was you, and I was treating is as just subject matter.

You and those like you that want to abuse and stretch the rules, here, I really don't care what your opinion is of me. I'm not in a popularity contest, so your opinion is less then meaningful to me.

The general public when they went to a dealership, also didn't agree to the charter rules here, so again one of your points is moot.

Maybe in your world it's only about the car being comfortable, but to some of us, again, the majority in those that have replied, it does mean something.

And to date, I've never been asked or upon reflection have seen a need to remove one of my posts because it was out of line.

BTW, I'm just addressing points YOU brought up, so if you want to take offense at what I've said, it's only because you invited me to reply.

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by Red Regal T
Some guys argue with one another and some are even rude.

I don't see that there are enough problems to warrant this thread.

Read the charter lately?.
Rudness, and fighting are against the charter. And everyone is supposed to abide by the charter to be part of this list.

Maybe you don't see enough problems, but there has been a trend that if you look thur the postings about folks that have left, and if you knew those folks many of them left because of the way things were going. Maybe you missed some of the contributions some of them made, but some of them were very important, and over time have been taken for granted.

Just to pick out one item.
Who do you think did the original hac of the GN prom?.
Who designed and built Tweaker?.
How many years lead did this give the GN community in being able to tune them?.
Where would we be without Prom burning?.
Have you ever tried to reverse engineer a Prom?, much less figure out how to read the on board ROM?.

This was all possible by 2 guys that have packed up and left. While there were some outside issues, in large part it was because of the way things had been going.

There are lots of takers, and fewer and fewer givers here. If the rest of the innovative guys pack up and were to leave, how long do you thing the GN community would be viable?.

We need to measure our words, and responses to what goes on. yes, some deals go bad, and as I pointed out often it's sometimes two way street, ruining/trashing a vendor, minor parts supplier over some minor issue, can lead to their collapse, yes, some need to work on things, but we can't get to the stage of PO'ing all of them. Not to mention tieing them up with somewhat petty emails.

 

[Otto J]

Originally posted by bruce
Just to pick out one item.
Who do you think did the original hac of the GN prom?.
Who designed and built Tweaker?.
How many years lead did this give the GN community in being able to tune them?.
Where would we be without Prom burning?.
Have you ever tried to reverse engineer a Prom?, much less figure out how to read the on board ROM?.

This was all possible by 2 guys that have packed up and left. While there were some outside issues, in large part it was because of the way things had been going.
.

Absolutley no offense taken from your post, I feel the same about you as you do me.As far as rudeness,I guess we all have are own view of it, Never intended to be rude.

As far as were would i be without GM prom burning?, Left that scene years ago and bought a F.A.S.T system.
Otto

 

[Razor]

Dont know what ya gots till...

You ever had a dinner at a restaurant , nice juicy steak, great wine.. wonderful salad.. but the free bread just sucked. See the dinner may have been killer, and really remarkable..but sometimes even the best restaurants get stale bread.

What i'm trying to say, it appears a lot of people complain.. others praise. I think looking at this site its a wonderful place, in comparison with a bunch of other car sites I visit. I can count on technical resources for which, if not here..would have but no where else to go and find.

I dont want to get into the he said she said stuff. I keep a very positive outlook on all things I do. Its the only way I can try and enjoy life. There is too much this part broke..after one year of racing it stuff floating around. The reason it broke..it was being raced. Duhh Are our expectations way higher becuase Walmart lets you take back a TV after one year, or you buy a 55 inch from circuit city and return it after the super bowl, or go to best buys and buy a camera, take it on vacation, then return it.. This Country bends backwards way too much in helping "some" people out.

You know my wifes grandfather just came back from South America. Once you buy something there.. guess what..its yours. You open the carton of eggs..find three broken..you just bought 3 broken eggs. No returns.

The businesses that work with our cars are not Walmart. I feel its my job as a consumer to test items when I recieve them. And at that time, make determinations as to the condition of said items. if I have a problem, contact the vendor for resolution. There are no vendors here that if you buy something from, wont bend over backwards on a timely legitimate complaint.

There are no million mile warranties on racing parts. Sometimes products need improvement.. other times what you get is the best that there is today available. Does it make it bullet proof..no. Case in point were the welded forward drums of years ago.. the welding improved the strength, but not until the billet stuff came out was there anything better. Does it make the welded drum bad.. no since there were no other options at the time. If you got 4 months service on a 10 second car.. would you complain... this is the point to all of this. The welded drum would last 300,000 miles on a stock GN. Someone rips the splines becuase they t-braked it to 25 PSI.. what can I say.

Buy a motor from any engine builder in the country.. ask for a warranty.. yup.. 30-30.. 30 feet, 30 seconds.. warranty over. You blow it to 1000 pieces strapped to the dyno..all 1000 pieces now belong to you. Its your job to guage your risk level.. and do your homework. Be clear and concise. Take it from there.

Guys just enjoy the great and tremendous hobby we have with these wonderful cars. Theyre a blessing and tremendous fun for thousands of owners. If your going to say something negative about someone, please dot your "I's" and cross your "T's" and make sure all avenue's of communication have been exhuasted. Its the rite thing to do.

Protect your self against fraud by following simple guidelines and use common sense. Even the best of us get taken..Its happened to me.. you learn from mistakes.

Peace gentleman.. and Ladies