Car slowed down w/alky..HELP!

[87NAT]

Thanks for the input everyone. I hurried up and went to the track today feeling guilty (1 1/2 hour drive) and made 3 passes and turned around and went home. I was in a hurry and Razor you are right, I need to take more time a play with the tune and log all my changes.

My wife does not support me working or playing with my GN at all so its hard to go to the track and spend a lot of time over there. I told her I was only going to be gone a little while today. But next time I'm not coming back home till the track closes.:smile:

"Its easier to ask forgiveness than permission"

 

[Razor]

All of us go through that when married one way or another. My advice is ask to be given a little space.. and when she does, get her in the habit of giving you that space on a routine basis. After a few weeks.. you now have changed a behavior. One night a week isnt a lot to ask.. and its not like your going to a bar/club/etc..

If you stay feeling your on a leash, the marriage will sooner or latter have issues. Just simple human nature.

Sorry to get off subject.. make some more time to enjoy your hobby.. Good luck with your decisions. Your stress level going to the track is a reflection on your cars performance.

 

[TURBO 6]

If I may suggest, put the PTE Intercooler on it, and try to put the car back in the same tune when it went it's fastest. Then add the alky and go from there. After that make one change at a time. That way you'll know if it worked or not. If that was the lowest number (02) the scanmaster recorded, you need to lean the car out. A bigger than stock intercooler would do that. You should be fine with a PTE stock location. No need for more than that. Oh I know what you mean by southern Louisiana heat!

 

[87NAT]

A light has gone off in my head!

I now realize that I was thinking of the alky as NOS...give it a shot and it will bring up the horsepower. I have now realized that it is just a detonation tool to supplement a critical tune at high boost levels and keeping it in check.

Razor, Your right about the stress...I was in a hurry to just make some pases and get back home. Didnt really try to adjust anything. I was going by my "seat of the pants" feel on the street. I could have sworn it was running high 11's...guess I was wrong. She made me feel guilty about leaving her and my 2 year old son at home on a Sunday. I work 6 days a week...but I always tell her I dont hunt, fish, golf, or go out to the bars. My GN (along with a lot of free weights)is my escape..I wish she would get it.:frown:

 

[yullose]

I think you've got it so far outta whack, you need to go back to a baseline and work your way from there.
Put a decent intercooler back on the car, then...Unplug the power going to the ECM, set the fuel pressure at 43psi (vac line off) with a known good gage... and start all over again.
Get the car tuned without the alky... then start turning up the boost and adding alky.

 

[justabuickv6]

It takes forever to get these things tuned when you have limited time and resources. It took me every bit of 2 years. That only included about 3 trips to the drag strip each year. Most of the tuning was done on the back roads in 3rd.

I know how you feel. My wife doesn't support my hobby either. The only way I can get away with it is if I take my son. You know how that goes with tunning at the track and watching a little one at the same time. Key Note: Take a friend.

 

[87NAT]

I think you've got it so far outta whack, you need to go back to a baseline and work your way from there.
Put a decent intercooler back on the car, then...Unplug the power going to the ECM, set the fuel pressure at 43psi (vac line off) with a known good gage... and start all over again.
Get the car tuned without the alky... then start turning up the boost and adding alky.

Well said and advice I am going to take. Im going to order a PTE stretch from Brian at Gbody and then pretend I dont have the Alky at all. I think if I have that mindset I will use the alky in small increments as needed.

 

[yullose]

What I've seemed to notice is... The chip likes the default fuel pressure.
What I use to do is, keep turning up the fuel pressure until the O2's settled where I wanted them. Only problem was, it made things too fat everywhere else. What I was doing was making the fuel pump work harder instead of opening the injectors longer. As fuel pressure goes up, pump output and efficiency goes down.
The lesson I learned is, make the injectors do the lions share of the work, not the fuel pump.

What really seems to work for me is... Set the pressure where Eric has the chip calibrated... Usually 43psi.
In good, warm weather, the chip fueling should be nearly perfect. As the weather turns cold, the motor will start running lean.
In 30 degree outside temps, my O2's were in the mid-600's at WOT and the motor fell flat on it's face. I added 15% fueling in the chip and wham... O2's went right back up to the low-800's at WOT.
Using this same tuneup, I installed the dual nozzle alky system. I turned the wastgate rod in about 5 turns, and tightened the RJC boost controller in about 7 turns. This is where they were set when I ran in the 10's on race gas. (I keep records of ALL changes I make)
First trip down the road, and I saw 1.4 degrees of knock with the Alky controller knob on #5. O2's were in the 780's. I turned the knob up to #6, added 4 degrees of timing and knock was gone... O2's were in the 790's-800's, boost was at 27psi, all on 93 octane.

So... all tuning was done in less than an hour, and the results are amazing. I can't wait for the roads to clear of snow/ice so I can drive it some more...
I also believe the car feels faster now on alky than it did on C16 race fuel.

 

[87NAT]

Snow Ice ...on the roads??? Roads undriveable? Our asphalt down here just melts in August....so traction is great!

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

I would try installing a Duttweiler neck on your stock intercooler. You should free up around 2psi in restriction & with your Alky tuned properly should be enough intercooler into the low 11's. With my recently installed Alky kit i have been able to remove my VERY large BGC 23 row stock location intercooler for my stocker again & increse the boost to 24psi on 93 octane from 20psi on 100 octane. This Razor's ALKY kit is the single best item i have ever used on the Turbo Buick's. EVERY Turbo Buick needs one.

 

[brian]

Ed,
Glad to hear the trans is still working well.

As was mentioned earlier... Leave it in third, do not go to fourth, the car should be a couple tenths quicker.

Brian

 

[87NAT]

Brian, It seems like the rpm's were pegged in third, thats why I shifted into fourth. I know that the factory tach is not worth a s*#t, so I really dont where I am at as far as RPM's. I know that I did shift into fourth real soon and when I went thru the traps I had been in fourth for a while. That could be a problem also.

After all of this input I have concluded that A: I need a stretch intercooler and B: I need to tune the car...real bad!

Thanks to everyone who put thier 2 cents in.:smile: Its because of this board why our cars are running as fast as they are. Information is the true power.

 

[hrhoward]

Get the car tuned without the alky... then start turning up the boost and adding alky.

I agree. I have made a considerable mods to mine since it has been sitting in storage it isn't funny. I plan to tune by starting at the low end w/o the alky and work my way up from there. It is going to take a long time. I am fortunate that my girlfriend loves this stuff and really gets excited about it. Good luck, be patient, take small steps, and keep notes.

 

[pacecarta]

I agree. I have made a considerable mods to mine since it has been sitting in storage it isn't funny. I plan to tune by starting at the low end w/o the alky and work my way up from there. It is going to take a long time. I am fortunate that my girlfriend loves this stuff and really gets excited about it. Good luck, be patient, take small steps, and keep notes.

good advice , dont rush it take your time and take notes , better that you were rich than lean
im not unfamiliar with tuning alky (PAC) as ive had it on my 87 for a couple of years and change the combo on a weekly basis and bring it to the track almost twice a week so reaching for the max the new change will yeild , some changes without a tune change produce slower times , and the stretch I/C (V4 20row) really did nothing for that car over a duttnecked stocker with stock turbo , on race gas im sure it helps alot , but not with alky

on my 86 i picked up the kit last winter and installed in feb and also installed a boost controller so i could lower the boost to safely make the transition from straight fuel to alky . im still on my original tweaked Turbo Tweak street chip (with only 8% fuel pulled out in chip and timing brought up to 25/24) ,
i dont take that car to the track as much or push it on the street (too dangerous) and i spend more time with the 87 so tuning the new combo was slow . It took me until the last weeks of the 2006 season to get it finally both dialed in , in the end I am faster than fuel alone with much less worry of the fuel pumps being pushed too far and i fill up at WAWA . even if i ended up going slower with alky i would be happy that im still going much faster than if i was on straight 93 so now i can enjoy driving it around and even drove it 140mi round trip to the track last time .

 

[87NAT]

After doing my homework on the boards and taking in as much advice as I could I'm ready to go back to the track.... armed with more time & patience.

I bought an auto-meter tach and I was wondering where I should be at in the top of third as far as RPM's go with my stock cam and 26" MT tires?

Just to let everyone know who posted a response...I was shifting into fourth gear after the eigth mile and going thru the traps at the top of fourth. I was using my factory tach gauge and it must be wayyyy off. From the info I have read on trap-RPM's I was really screwing up my time and probably putting some hurt on my tranny as well. Anyway, the tach should be a nice asset for my next trip to the drags.

 

[hrhoward]

Never rely on the the stock tach/boost guage. Mine reads approx 3500 to 4000 at idle. I plan to fix it with some black elec tape. I don't know off the top of my head what your rpm's should be at the top of third, sorry.

Good luck and above all, have fun!!! Wheeeee.....:biggrin:

 

[justabuickv6]

You'll get there. I ran so many 12.10 to 12.00 at around 109MPH for soooooo long. Just keep tuning. Play with fuel pressure, timing, etc.

I pick up 2MPH but bumping my 3rd and 4th timing down 2 degrees. It was set at 21 and it's back to 19 now.

Just keep playing. You'll get there.

 

[Nojug]

I think I used to trap 52-5400 w/ stock cam w/ fresh springs

 

[87NAT]

Thanks for the info on the RPM's. With my new tach my car shifts from 1-2 & 2-3 @ 5200 RPM's...so you are right on the money with your input. That will now be my 3-4 shift point at the track.


I just installed my PTE stretch IC. I had lowered my boost from the track setting of 25psi before my install because Mike@ Fullthrottle said I would pick up some boost when removing my stock IC. With all of my other settings the same as when I went to the track, my first test run was 22 psi, 585 02's and 6.65 degrees of knock. Can you say insta spool! That new IC leaned out the car alot It was now time to put Razors "alky tuning sticky" info to work.

I reset my chip to default, FP@ 42 psi static and now have the car at 24 psi, 790 02's in top of third, 0.0 knock, with blue alky knob at 1/2 way mark. I guess my next step is to slowly drop out the alky till I see knock, correct?

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

I would try creeping up on the boost a little. You should be able to get back to your 25 psi to 26 psi & it looks like you have a pretty good handle on the tune. How does it feel? Pull smoothly?