China Headers

[SAMBALLS1]

Hate? No. I simply call a spade a spade. I've played with Chinese headers (given to me) and I found them to be substandard to the stockers. Flanges were bad, inconsistent pipe diameters, cheezy welds....I could see these flaws, and I'm just a backyard fabricator!

I don't need to substantiate anything, as I'm not trying to sell anything (unlike you). I'm a fan of the stock headers, as they're a proven item. I'm not the one advocating for these headers, you are, so the burden of proof about the claims you have made rests on you. You attack the vendors as being money grubbing, and ripping the Buick community- I say it's business, and you shouldn't justify your headers as being the new next best thing by bashig other products- shows your utter lack of understanding about marketing. Last thin you should be worried about is a vendor's profit margin, as it's none of your business.

Yup, been around for a while and I've seen 'neat' stuff come and go. What stands the test of time is quality, and the headers you support just don't have it. You may have the world PMing you for the contact info, but you still represent an inferior product.

You know what, you're right... I am going to do that for you and everyone else out there that might be considering these headers.. I will run my car on the dyno with my current mods minus the new headers at (X) PSI then replace then make no changes other than headers, have a witness to verifty
and post the performance gains...

And to the china headers you got, which was were they and were they SPX-7's headers! if they weren't, then your not calling a spade a spade!!!
So yes, substantiate what your saying and make sure your talking about the same product!!! Your just stereotyping every chinese product!!!!

I never said they were the best out there, I said that they were very INEXPENSIVE! not $1000 plus dollars...


And so you know I'm not the one selling them, and I have no monetary gains from them... I'm just arguing the fact they are a good better than decent product, good customer service, well constructed, and CHEAP!!!!! CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP!!!!!!.

Thanks,

 

[Fuelie600]

Figure I might as well jump in. As I see it (from reading all the threads), there are 3 groups of people posting here.

1--The offended designer(s) [I can understand your side on this Nick]

2--The anti-China/pro American guys

3--The guys taking a chance on a "possible" inferior product

I guess what matters to most is quality. I have purchased a set of SPX-7 headers to see what they are about. I do plan on installing these on my own GN, which presently traps @ 132mph with ported stockers. Now nothing, and I mean nothing is perfect, but I will say that these headers are built with some good qualities. The SS tubing ( on my set ) has shown only a slight magnetic attraction on only 1 side of just 2 tubes. The mandrel bends are excellent, and the welds are a 8 or 9 out of 10. All the flanges have slight distortion but will clean up easily with a mill. The turbo flange shows to be the worst off, but is no worse than my stocker when I checked it. This is nothing to be alarmed with, as I have milled the stock headers, block, heads, intake, aftermarket turbo housings, ect., ect. and I don't consider those parts "cheap". Everything you do on a performance build requires adjustments, port matching, and alot of R&I before things are right. It is the nature of the beast in "hot rodding".

As for the worth of these headers, they are worth every penny. As you know, the tubing can not be had for $250. This makes them a great choice for someone who does'nt mind doing some fitting, and checking.

Personaly, I don't care if anyone else buys these. They are what I want.

If you don't like these, ingnore them. There is noone pushing sales. They are not on eBay. They are sold by request.

Many guys are adding opinions without any experience, and that leads to flaming and hurt feelings. Please stick with the facts, so everyone can make an informed choice as to what they want to use on their on TR. We don't need to beat each other up over this. Brian

 

[SAMBALLS1]

Figure I might as well jump in. As I see it (from reading all the threads), there are 3 groups of people posting here.

1--The offended designer(s) [I can understand your side on this Nick]

2--The anti-China/pro American guys

3--The guys taking a chance on a "possible" inferior product

I guess what matters to most is quality. I have purchased a set of SPX-7 headers to see what they are about. I do plan on installing these on my own GN, which presently traps @ 132mph with ported stockers. Now nothing, and I mean nothing is perfect, but I will say that these headers are built with some good qualities. The SS tubing ( on my set ) has shown only a slight magnetic attraction on only 1 side of just 2 tubes. The mandrel bends are excellent, and the welds are a 8 or 9 out of 10. All the flanges have slight distortion but will clean up easily with a mill. The turbo flange shows to be the worst off, but is no worse than my stocker when I checked it. This is nothing to be alarmed with, as I have milled the stock headers, block, heads, intake, aftermarket turbo housings, ect., ect. and I don't consider those parts "cheap". Everything you do on a performance build requires adjustments, port matching, and alot of R&I before things are right. It is the nature of the beast in "hot rodding".

As for the worth of these headers, they are worth every penny. As you know, the tubing can not be had for $250. This makes them a great choice for someone who does'nt mind doing some fitting, and checking.

Personaly, I don't care if anyone else buys these. They are what I want.

If you don't like these, ingnore them. There is noone pushing sales. They are not on eBay. They are sold by request.

Many guys are adding opinions without any experience, and that leads to flaming and hurt feelings. Please stick with the facts, so everyone can make an informed choice as to what they want to use on their on TR. We don't need to beat each other up over this. Brian

Thank you Brian!

 

[Project TNX]

Why can't you guys have China make us some healight bezels, window trim, turbo covers, taillights, etc..

Instead everyone is buying a set of premade headers and having china copy them, hook us up on the hard to find parts, not like China cares about GM copyrights either.

 

[SloGN]

Figure I might as well jump in. As I see it (from reading all the threads), there are 3 groups of people posting here.

1--The offended designer(s) [I can understand your side on this Nick]

2--The anti-China/pro American guys

3--The guys taking a chance on a "possible" inferior product

I guess what matters to most is quality. I have purchased a set of SPX-7 headers to see what they are about. I do plan on installing these on my own GN, which presently traps @ 132mph with ported stockers. Now nothing, and I mean nothing is perfect, but I will say that these headers are built with some good qualities. The SS tubing ( on my set ) has shown only a slight magnetic attraction on only 1 side of just 2 tubes. The mandrel bends are excellent, and the welds are a 8 or 9 out of 10. All the flanges have slight distortion but will clean up easily with a mill. The turbo flange shows to be the worst off, but is no worse than my stocker when I checked it. This is nothing to be alarmed with, as I have milled the stock headers, block, heads, intake, aftermarket turbo housings, ect., ect. and I don't consider those parts "cheap". Everything you do on a performance build requires adjustments, port matching, and alot of R&I before things are right. It is the nature of the beast in "hot rodding".

As for the worth of these headers, they are worth every penny. As you know, the tubing can not be had for $250. This makes them a great choice for someone who does'nt mind doing some fitting, and checking.

Personaly, I don't care if anyone else buys these. They are what I want.

If you don't like these, ingnore them. There is noone pushing sales. They are not on eBay. They are sold by request.

Many guys are adding opinions without any experience, and that leads to flaming and hurt feelings. Please stick with the facts, so everyone can make an informed choice as to what they want to use on their on TR. We don't need to beat each other up over this. Brian

very well said .

 

[d0n_3d]

I take back my previous comment about never buying Chinese headers...I'm in that catagory of "guy looking for a nice looking set of stainless headers for a decent price". Now honestly for a few hundred dollars or whatever...those Chinese headers look damn good and I'd buy a set right away especially for the money. Hey, if they turn out crappy, then I'm out maybe a couple hundred bucks. No big deal compared to the thousands I have spent on the car. I understand the orginal designers arguments...but when was the last time the business market was fair? People undercut prices all over the place. Hell I put up with that crap every single day when I worked as a salesman for PTE. All my vendors complained to me everyday about how each other was undercutting the other. You think I have time to police 1000 vendors about their pricing??? Hell we couldn't even enforce our MAP pricing agreement with everyone. People are going to sell crap for whatever they want to sell it for. If they only want to make a few cents on each product...then that's their damn business!

I've learned the aftermarket automotive industry used to be for people who had quite a bit of "disposable income". People don't have as much of this anymore and many people are searching for the best deal. I don't blame them...I'm not rich myself and I'm trying to make this hobby SOMEWHAT affordable. If someone has a decent set of headers (made in China or not) for a good price, I'm gonna go that route!

Flame China all you want...their economy is growing at such an incredible rate, everything you buy now is pretty much made there. Look at Autozone's Duralast line lately? All that stuff is made in China. They are taking over the automotive parts industry by storm. And their products aren't all that bad. The prices are great. Everyone can afford low cost replacement parts for their older vehicles. It's just the way it is now. America is not the only country doing something in this world.

 

[87natl]

I was considering getting a set of these, I LIKE cheap when I can get it, but have made up my mind now that I WON'T primarily because this guy pimping the product on our board behaves like such a jackass.

Thanks,
Sam......

Ummmm, I mean MIKE

 

[V6UnderPressure]

I take back my previous comment about never buying Chinese headers...I'm in that catagory of "guy looking for a nice looking set of stainless headers for a decent price". Now honestly for a few hundred dollars or whatever...those Chinese headers look damn good and I'd buy a set right away especially for the money. Hey, if they turn out crappy, then I'm out maybe a couple hundred bucks. No big deal compared to the thousands I have spent on the car. I understand the orginal designers arguments...but when was the last time the business market was fair? People undercut prices all over the place. Hell I put up with that crap every single day when I worked as a salesman for PTE. All my vendors complained to me everyday about how each other was undercutting the other. You think I have time to police 1000 vendors about their pricing??? Hell we couldn't even enforce our MAP pricing agreement with everyone. People are going to sell crap for whatever they want to sell it for. If they only want to make a few cents on each product...then that's their damn business!

I've learned the aftermarket automotive industry used to be for people who had quite a bit of "disposable income". People don't have as much of this anymore and many people are searching for the best deal. I don't blame them...I'm not rich myself and I'm trying to make this hobby SOMEWHAT affordable. If someone has a decent set of headers (made in China or not) for a good price, I'm gonna go that route!

Flame China all you want...their economy is growing at such an incredible rate, everything you buy now is pretty much made there. Look at Autozone's Duralast line lately? All that stuff is made in China. They are taking over the automotive parts industry by storm. And their products aren't all that bad. The prices are great. Everyone can afford low cost replacement parts for their older vehicles. It's just the way it is now. America is not the only country doing something in this world.

Very well said. And for everyone talking about "buying American", when they start making reliable products, I will do so. Why do you think Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are such reliable cars? They take their time and do things right. There was a recent article actually talking about how the american companies would rather hurry and get more done and sacrifice quality and workmanship. The US chooses quantity over quality. Reliable car companies such as Toyota, Honda, Subaru and Nissan choose quality over quantity. That is why my Buick is the only American car currently in my family. It's plain to see that most of these American companies have only one thing in mind, and that is making as much money as they can in such short time. Now it backfires and everyone complains.

 

[gnfanatic]

Samballs, if you dont mind me asking/ What's your occupation?



Ralph

 

[d0n_3d]

Yeah look at Ford, GM, and Chrysler nowadays...their overall sales SUCK. Toyota is kicking all their @sses. Why? Because they are SMARTER by offering what people want...that is FUEL EFFICIENT cars at a DECENT price. Is it UNFAIR that Toyota is outselling their competition by providing decently priced products people need? NO! Sure NOW the big 3 are starting to offer more vehicles like this...but it's a little too late! Are they copying Toyota? In a sense, yes...but not by copying the exact same cars they sell...they are copying their selling strategies. That's business. You RISK owning your own business, I don't care HOW successful you are. That's the risk you take when you go into your own business.

Back to the headers...like I said...If I can buy a set of headers for $250 and have to make a few minor modifications to make them perfect, I'll do it. Even PTE's stuff is not 100% perfect. Look at my front-mount pipe in my engine pics on my site! That damn pipe has too much of a bend going to the throttle body. I mentioned this problem to the powers of be and they didn't listen to me. I love PTE and their products...but nobody is perfect!!! It's not easy designing crap for the aftermarket auto industry. Everyone wants perfection and every car is slightly different. There are NO two cars alike just like people. Even identical twins are different. So think what you want...if you want to spend over a grand on headers then that's your business. I'll be using the extra cash to buy other parts I need

 

[lyonsd]

I agree, and the stockers can be made to look good,and yes, it's ceramic coated, not powder coated.

Who coated them for you?

 

[RUQWKNF]

Rock on Don (d0n_3d).
Very well said my friend.

I have my own opinions about anything produced in China. I'll keep those thoughts to myself with this one exception.

Currently serving and Ex personel who have served in this countries Armed Services, (myself included) know the truth about China. We were all taught the truth. The general public should really read up.

When it comes to car parts, I try to buy American whenever I can. Sometimes the wallet won't let me buy American, so I do just like a lot of other Americans do out there and get the cheaper parts, just to get back on the road. I'm guilty of it, I admit it.

With regards to these headers, I 100% agree with what d0n_3d has said. These cheaper headers are pretty much a disposable item at that cost. If they work for a few 3-4 years, so be it.

It is getting harder and harder for a small business owner in the US too compete against all the stuff that is being shoved down our throats from China.
I say if your combo needs them, go for it. But I personally will pass on them.

It's all a moot point anyway. The comet will be here in 2012 anyway.

Enjoy...

Near Earth Objects

Patrick

 

[d0n_3d]

Rock on Don (d0n_3d).
Very well said my friend.

I have my own opinions about anything produced in China. I'll keep those thoughts to myself with this one exception.

Currently serving and Ex personel who have served in this countries Armed Services, (myself included) know the truth about China. We were all taught the truth. The general public should really read up.

When it comes to car parts, I try to buy American whenever I can. Sometimes the wallet won't let me buy American, so I do just like a lot of other Americans do out there and get the cheaper parts, just to get back on the road. I'm guilty of it, I admit it.

With regards to these headers, I 100% agree with what d0n_3d has said. These cheaper headers are pretty much a disposable item at that cost. If they work for a few 3-4 years, so be it.

It is getting harder and harder for a small business owner in the US too compete against all the stuff that is being shoved down our throats from China.
I say if your combo needs them, go for it. But I personally will pass on them.

It's all a moot point anyway. The comet will be here in 2012 anyway.

Enjoy...

Near Earth Objects

Patrick

OMG I'm dying over here...LOL!!! thanks for the comet update Pat...I'm not saying I like China...but I don't think these headers are THAT bad for only $250...if they don't work and I can't modify them to work...then I'll come back and apologize for supporting them...until then...I'm not going to give them a bad rap...you CAN'T possibly bash something unless you have tried it out for yourself...

 

[Pablo]

If you want to stop supporting communist regimes taking away American jobs (The ones that most of the people in Washington claim Americans won't do)
Start off by opening your closet and looking at the labels of the clothes you wear. I just took off my shirt as I wrote this and what does it say? "Made in Vietnam". I have a feeling you will be walking around naked if you really want to put your money where your mouth is.

Making a set of headers the ground you stand on is like covering a pinhole in the hull of a sinking ship.

Most of the stuff you buy that is low priced and made in the USA is made by "foreigners" anyway. 40% of Los Angeles is comprised of foreign born residents.

I guess I can only laugh at how people are so shockingly confronted by things destroying our country that are so far beyond help now.

The only unjust situation is the one the Government created by making things like this possible. I don't blame individuals for trying to commence business efficiently. It's human nature.

 

[SAMBALLS1]

Samballs, if you dont mind me asking/ What's your occupation?



Ralph

I'm a finance director at a Chevrolet Store... Been in the Business (finance) for 13 years.

 

[PaCemkr86]

Figure I might as well jump in. As I see it (from reading all the threads), there are 3 groups of people posting here.

1--The offended designer(s) [I can understand your side on this Nick]

2--The anti-China/pro American guys

3--The guys taking a chance on a "possible" inferior product

I guess what matters to most is quality. I have purchased a set of SPX-7 headers to see what they are about. I do plan on installing these on my own GN, which presently traps @ 132mph with ported stockers. Now nothing, and I mean nothing is perfect, but I will say that these headers are built with some good qualities. The SS tubing ( on my set ) has shown only a slight magnetic attraction on only 1 side of just 2 tubes. The mandrel bends are excellent, and the welds are a 8 or 9 out of 10. All the flanges have slight distortion but will clean up easily with a mill. The turbo flange shows to be the worst off, but is no worse than my stocker when I checked it. This is nothing to be alarmed with, as I have milled the stock headers, block, heads, intake, aftermarket turbo housings, ect., ect. and I don't consider those parts "cheap". Everything you do on a performance build requires adjustments, port matching, and alot of R&I before things are right. It is the nature of the beast in "hot rodding".

As for the worth of these headers, they are worth every penny. As you know, the tubing can not be had for $250. This makes them a great choice for someone who does'nt mind doing some fitting, and checking.

Personaly, I don't care if anyone else buys these. They are what I want.

If you don't like these, ingnore them. There is noone pushing sales. They are not on eBay. They are sold by request.

Many guys are adding opinions without any experience, and that leads to flaming and hurt feelings. Please stick with the facts, so everyone can make an informed choice as to what they want to use on their on TR. We don't need to beat each other up over this. Brian

i liked that post..

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

Sam, or whoever you are, you may think you are a cool guy, but myself, and others, see you as a crook. You stole a design and are motivated by making a profit.

All your BS about your agenda to help others save money is your smoke screen. You did it because of greed - pure and simple.

Sure I am pissed because of this, but the Buick community should be even more pissed. Why? Because vendors like me will not spend our time, money and resources to develop products so a rip-off artist can copy and sell for much less, both price and quality.

Sure, I use China parts because they were developed by vendors out of need, and not a copied design. Even some China stuff is such poor quality, I prefer to pay the extra in many cases to avoid any problems, and have a known reliable product.

So go pedal your headers, but don't come here and give us your "rightious" BS about helping the community.

Very well said & i wonder who is going to be the next vendor to get kicked in the teeth?? These Buick's used to stand for "Going Fast with Class" but it looks like those days are gone.

So who would this new Buick crowd like to see get ripped off next?
Phony Razor's Alky kit's
Faux Champion heads
Porus low grade T/A blocks
Korean Casper's wiring products
General Tso's PTE ball bearing turbo's

It should be OK to copy them all if it saves a few bucks..... right??

 

[knucklehead]

90% of the aftermarket parts for our cars (TURBO BUICKS),are garbage....

 

[broke1]

So who would this new Buick crowd like to see get ripped off next?
Phony Razor's Alky kit's
Faux Champion heads
Porus low grade T/A blocks
Korean Casper's wiring products
General Tso's PTE ball bearing turbo's

Devilsown and coolingmist copied Razors progressive meth,so its already been done.

TA made a market to compete with Champion so its already been done.

M&A actually made pourous blocks long before TA so its already been done.

Racetronix copied Caspers stuff so its already been done.

Turbonetics was making BB turbos for Buicks long before PTE so its already been done.

Most every part in the Buick community that people are selling as their own invention is actually a rip off of someone elses hard work.

So what is the difference???

 

[gnfanatic]

90% of the aftermarket parts for our cars (TURBO BUICKS),are garbage....

You betta not be talkin aboiut my atr 7th injector