co2 intercooler sprayer

[notacarlo]

Link this thread to the TSO guys and see what they say! Giggling will ensue I'm sure.

 

[Daniel Jost]

OK, i have some things to be said again "thunderage31" you are talking about cheap HP, you say that using a CO2 sprayer is cheap HP, so you could use less expensive alky,haha.

When i go to the paint store i buy a gallon of denatured Alky for just short of 10$, and i see some guys on the board saying it is something like $1 or $1.5 for a pound of CO2, even though its not that cheap up around here.

Ok now lets see how much you use, lets say you use about 1 pound or so per run down the track. Now when i go down the track i use such a little amount of alky in one track run i dont even notice, on my tank. So in one night at the track you make say 10 passes, you are looking at $10-15 in CO2, <a guess based on how much my N20 my brother uses with a 50 shot in one night, and i have used oh look maybe a half gallon which is about $4.80 if you were to run it pure, i mix 1/3 with water ($1.60).
-Ok now performance gains, my friend runs a sprayer on his 2.0 turbo, which has less air flow to cool on about the same sized IC and sprayer as a TB would use, his performance notice, enough to feel in the seat of your pants.
-Ok now the alky on my car, i can go from 15 psi knock, to 24 psi with no knock on alky, the difference huge difference to cool the charge, and add octane, it goes from fast to, D&*n that is awsome.
Kit prices
-C02 Sprayers- $150-350+$10-15 fill bottle= cheapest Scenario= $165
-Alky Kits- $125-550+4.80 fill tank= cheapest Scenario= $129.80< (what i payed for my two stage kit off of ebay from some lady that had 3 brand new kits) so your looking at about $160 for anyone that just wanted to get one.

-Ok now your at the track awsome night and you got lots of runs in, oops im low on alky, and your out of C02, that brings me to availability!

-C02 sprayer: You have to go and find a C02 filling company that will be able to fill your bottle, the PITA to always get it filled, what if it is sunday, no place even open to fill, regardless your day is over for your good times!

-Alky: well i have another gallon of alky sitting in a cooler, at my pit spot! Pull it out pour it in, and im off to go in 5 min... Oh and if i run out of alky there is still denatured water! Free with my dehydrator in my basement.

So it is clear to me what i would consider cheap HP, that lasts for a really long time, is much more plentiful, and there is no wait to recharge your system, its ALKY all the way for me!!

P.S. that is not all to be based towards thrunderage31 but at the whole board that is thinking of C02 sprayers, you guys can make your own descisions. Also im not an "Old Fart" im probably younger than most of the people on this board, and there is alot to be learned from the elders that have been there done that! So you ask why do i have a sprayer, because i have it routed of my pro-flow NX solenoid that has a prevision for a purge built in, so i didnt waste my purge so i built my own sprayer and routed it through it, and decided to use it that way. i dont know if the spray bar will effect cooling efficiency when im not using it because it might be in the way of flow.

Sorry for the long post,Dan

 

[thunderace31]

OK, i have some things to be said again "thunderage31" you are talking about cheap HP, you say that using a CO2 sprayer is cheap HP, so you could use less expensive alky,haha.

When i go to the paint store i buy a gallon of denatured Alky for just short of 10$, and i see some guys on the board saying it is something like $1 or $1.5 for a pound of CO2, even though its not that cheap up around here.

Ok now lets see how much you use, lets say you use about 1 pound or so per run down the track. Now when i go down the track i use such a little amount of alky in one track run i dont even notice, on my tank. So in one night at the track you make say 10 passes, you are looking at $10-15 in CO2, <a guess based on how much my N20 my brother uses with a 50 shot in one night, and i have used oh look maybe a half gallon which is about $4.80 if you were to run it pure, i mix 1/3 with water ($1.60).
-Ok now performance gains, my friend runs a sprayer on his 2.0 turbo, which has less air flow to cool on about the same sized IC and sprayer as a TB would use, his performance notice, enough to feel in the seat of your pants.
-Ok now the alky on my car, i can go from 15 psi knock, to 24 psi with no knock on alky, the difference huge difference to cool the charge, and add octane, it goes from fast to, D&*n that is awsome.
Kit prices
-C02 Sprayers- $150-350+$10-15 fill bottle= cheapest Scenario= $165
-Alky Kits- $125-550+4.80 fill tank= cheapest Scenario= $129.80< (what i payed for my two stage kit off of ebay from some lady that had 3 brand new kits) so your looking at about $160 for anyone that just wanted to get one.

-Ok now your at the track awsome night and you got lots of runs in, oops im low on alky, and your out of C02, that brings me to availability!

-C02 sprayer: You have to go and find a C02 filling company that will be able to fill your bottle, the PITA to always get it filled, what if it is sunday, no place even open to fill, regardless your day is over for your good times!

-Alky: well i have another gallon of alky sitting in a cooler, at my pit spot! Pull it out pour it in, and im off to go in 5 min... Oh and if i run out of alky there is still denatured water! Free with my dehydrator in my basement.

So it is clear to me what i would consider cheap HP, that lasts for a really long time, is much more plentiful, and there is no wait to recharge your system, its ALKY all the way for me!!

P.S. that is not all to be based towards thrunderage31 but at the whole board that is thinking of C02 sprayers, you guys can make your own descisions. Also im not an "Old Fart" im probably younger than most of the people on this board, and there is alot to be learned from the elders that have been there done that! So you ask why do i have a sprayer, because i have it routed of my pro-flow NX solenoid that has a prevision for a purge built in, so i didnt waste my purge so i built my own sprayer and routed it through it, and decided to use it that way. i dont know if the spray bar will effect cooling efficiency when im not using it because it might be in the way of flow.

Sorry for the long post,Dan

Humm interesting me and 4 buddies are running Razors kits and using 2 gallons of true Methonal every time we go and make 6-8 pass's!

cheapest I have found reall alky (Not denatured crap) is $16.75 per gallon (We just purchased a 25 gallon drum and will most likly need more before the end of the summer!

Now I dont plan to use the CO2 all the time and I love my alky system! Will never take it off my car! But if I can use less $16 alky and a few $ of CO2 to get the same or fast time Im in!

Thats just me and I like to play with the new things that come out

 

[thunderace31]

Also my tank (Razor kit) holds 1.5 gallons and I burn threw that in 3 pass's at the track or one night out screwing off on the street with Ulta 94 in the tank.
When I go to the track I run pure 110 synoco just to be safe. (like last year when the alky pump took a poop and I didnt notice it till the 2nd pass)

Again love my alky a new toy is always cool and another way to drop inlet temps is always a good way to make more HP!

 

[Daniel Jost]

Like i said to everyone his own, but i have no clue how much you spray but i bearly go through a gallon of denatured in one night. Also denatured works awsome for me, are you talking about "true good alky" as being methanol?

,Dan

 

[thunderace31]

Like i said to everyone his own, but i have no clue how much you spray but i bearly go through a gallon of denatured in one night. Also denatured works awsome for me, are you talking about "true good alky" as being methanol?

,Dan

99.5% methanol no water works best better octane better for the pump

 

[notacarlo]

Again, isn't alky for cooling the intake charge and supressing detonation? NOT for raising octane.

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but the fear of being disqualified/booted from a session isn't worth it.

Alky is proven. If C02 was the "rage" everyone would be using it.

my $.02

 

[SouthernCal GN]

Again, isn't alky for cooling the intake charge and supressing detonation? NOT for raising octane.

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but the fear of being disqualified/booted from a session isn't worth it.

Alky is proven. If C02 was the "rage" everyone would be using it.

my $.02

Does both. It's a combustible fuel, AND the evaporative properties have a dramatic cooling effect on the intake charge.

 

[Ormand]

"it's the VOLUME of air that creates the hp"
I think maybe you need to take that IC engine course again! Volume of air through an engine is always the same, at a given rpm. The MASS of the air varies, depending on temperature, throttle position, and air pressure ahead of the throttle- "boost". For most of us, at WOT, the mass will be somewhere in the range of 250 to 400 gm/sec. (note that the stock MAF will only read to 255. That's about half pound to a pound sec). In order to cool that much air, you would need a substantial flow of coolant, be it CO2, or NOS, or ethanol. The MIT paper mentions that "During the brief periods of high torque
operation, high fuel fractions of up to 100% ethanol could be used to prevent knock". And that is with direct injection into the cylinder, not quite the same as what most Buicks use. If the flow of any of these cooling agents is as much as 10% of the air flow, then you will end up using about as much CO2, or whatever, as you use gasoline. That seems like a lot to me, for any use other than just 1/4 mile at a time.

 

[SouthernCal GN]

Nope- my statement is correct- mass flow is derived from the volume flow result to which a density correction is applied.

No volume= no density corrections= no mass flow.

A question-

For most of us, at WOT, the mass will be somewhere in the range of 250 to 400 gm/sec. (note that the stock MAF will only read to 255. That's about half pound to a pound sec). In order to cool that much air, you would need a substantial flow of coolant, be it CO2, or NOS, or ethanol.

How do the majority of TR owners get around not having alky, CO2, or NO2 systems to cool off that air charge?

 

[notacarlo]

I remeber this! Wasnt good they could have won the event!

I think what you want to do is spray it right after your burnout and heading to the line.
Spray stage and go wouldnt give them enough time to see anything!

I have seen a few Ricers around here tha have had the N20 set ups with small turbos the one guy claims to be going 11's when he runs it and cant get out of the 12's if he dosnt spray it down before a run.

As for using with and alky system I think you would still pick up some big #'s and could probly use a little less Alky (Witch in my area cost an arm and a leg!) Netting you an even better time. Im all about cheap HP so Ill be playing with as soon as I get my HR Parts and Stuff bar on the back end

Thunderace, it was Tony D.

 

[turbofabricator]

Humm interesting me and 4 buddies are running Razors kits and using 2 gallons of true Methonal every time we go and make 6-8 pass's!

cheapest I have found reall alky (Not denatured crap) is $16.75 per gallon (We just purchased a 25 gallon drum and will most likly need more before the end of the summer!

Now I dont plan to use the CO2 all the time and I love my alky system! Will never take it off my car! But if I can use less $16 alky and a few $ of CO2 to get the same or fast time Im in!

Thats just me and I like to play with the new things that come out

GEEZE you are getting RIPPED off! I pay $2.75 a gallon for VP race fuel methanol. (99.95% pure for M1) Maybe you should look for a VP race fuel dist. in your area. You can buy it in a 55 gallon drums if you like or find a sprint car racer/supplier that has 500+ gallon tanks, that will pump it into your gas jug. Maybe these guys? METHANOL RACING FUEL 55 GAL [100-9910] - $110.00 : Port City Racing

 

[thunderace31]

The only one in our area is DUMB A** Livernois motorsports and yes they rip everyone off!

Will only sell a 15 gallon Drum and it works out to $16.75 per gallon!

If I found someone else I would get it from them for sure!

The only other place is over 1 hour away and not easy to get to from where I am.

Sucks!