Colder Weather and Alky Injection

[kidglok]

Did #1 go lean? How'd the plug look? That usually tells the story. Also what kind of gasket?

Plug looked like it went lean, the ground strap was still there tho lol cometic .060, studded

 

[bison]

The guys that don't experience problems in 40* air either aren't injecting a high % of alky or more than than likely aren't running a high mass flow through the engine. You can make all kinds of mistakes at 600hp or less and not lean out or hurt it. If you're over 700hp and you aren't getting vaporization then you will overfuel the rear and underfuel the front and it will lead to melted cylinders.

 

[we4Mateo]

I've always thought that the intake air temp at the alky nozzle was more important too than the ambient. If you run a lot of boost through an inefficient intercooler and keep the temps up at the throttle body, then the alky shouldn't pose a problem and will just do its job. Spray a lot with a front mount where it gets it down to ambient on its own, then there's a problem. As mentioned already, just turn down the boost and drop the alky if you are worried. Can't get traction in the cold anyway. I'm a low horsepower guy with a single nozzle and I still drop the alky in the winter when the occasional drive presents itself. I'd rather drive it sans alky than not be able to floor it .

 

[trbojo]

Are you single or dual nozzle? The GPH has allot to do with it. I have yet to see a complete meltdown with a single m15 but it can still beat on 1 and 2 cylinder.

One of my first motors I ran for a few years with a single nozzle. When I did take it apart the head gaskets (cometics) got the hell beat out of them on 1 and 2. One of the layers toward the valley was missing on #2 but they still held. Funny thing the car ran fine and there were no signs of any issues. I look back now with a better understanding and realize what was going on. I drove that motor hard for a few years. Even in the winter. It's my opinion the colder weather months took it's toll. I'm pretty confident in that.

i was single up til this season...

 

[forzfed]

Never heard of this before, the only thing I can think of is if the fuel supply was not able to keep up. I personally run the same amount of boost #25 lbs with Alky Injection, a/f correction, yr round. But in the colder months it takes longer for the oil to warm up, which is what I gauge, by watching the pressure drop down to the 20 psi when hot, then I feel comfortable going WOT, I don't like to go any higher rpm then necc yr round until the oil comes up to temp and flows quicker.

Chuck

I've mentioned this 5 yrs ago on the other forum. My car used to backfire with the alky in cold temps, till I turned it down. I have friends who's cars run on Methanol, you can't start them in freezing temps unless you start it with gasoline or run a fuel heater. The flashpoint of Methanol is 54'F. I've actually had to do combustion calculations with different fuel in school.

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

I ran the 02's down to 730 two weeks ago in 48 degree weather...with alky...with no issues. Leaving the boost turned up/not adding fuel in cold weather is an easy mistake for a novice.

 

[Phoneguy]

I melted mine a year ago last May. Dual nozzle ALKY in cool temps...IAT went from 145* to 62* in a flash...Melted the block,head, one piston,two push rods and the electrode off the plug !
Now, I dont blame the ALKY, it was doing its job. My boost controller decided that 22psi was not near enough and adjusted it for me...it went way north of 29.6psi (3 Bar MAP limitation on FAST XFI) Who knows how high it really went but the end result was very ugly.

Bryan

 

[Mr.Spool]

im very interested in these type of threads as i use the pump gas/alky mix but i wonder if the correction is part of the problem or the afr is to lean,or timing to high,fuel pressure and or alky pressure dropping off etc.im running a 5.6 chip and m10-m15 on a very strong combo with an afr that is very rich with plenty of cushion and haven't had an issue.the meth flashpoint makes alot of sense and here in the north the air is really good right now and regardless of fuel would require a much different tune.

 

[SHADOWII]

I melted mine a year ago last May. Dual nozzle ALKY in cool temps...IAT went from 145* to 62* in a flash...Melted the block,head, one piston,two push rods and the electrode off the plug !
Now, I dont blame the ALKY, it was doing its job. My boost controller decided that 22psi was not near enough and adjusted it for me...it went way north of 29.6psi (3 Bar MAP limitation on FAST XFI) Who knows how high it really went but the end result was very ugly.

Bryan

The old addage, "A word to the wise is sufficient." but you gave teeth to the warnings stated above! After experiencing what had been stated above, the belly flop, back-firing, etc, I quietly replace the h/g's and put her away for the winter.

 

[trbojo]

so does anybody have an answer if you're any better with the wb correction turned off?

 

[SHADOWII]

Not sure, you might want to roll back the alchy and the boost some what. I think at this time of the year is the worst, because of the drastic temp changes, in many cases, it will drop 30* in a day. It's probably best to prowl the streets by the "temp" of the day, than by the "time" of the day!?

 

[bad V6]

I would think that we will see proof one way or another next week, as expected highs are in the low 60's at BG. Hopefully noone will lose a motor.

 

[murphster]

I've mentioned this 5 yrs ago on the other forum. My car used to backfire with the alky in cold temps, till I turned it down. I have friends who's cars run on Methanol, you can't start them in freezing temps unless you start it with gasoline or run a fuel heater. The flashpoint of Methanol is 54'F. I've actually had to do combustion calculations with different fuel in school.

For our scenario of alky injection flashpoint has nothing to do with it. Most of the the alky doesn't get vaporized until its in the chamber. Don't confuse vaporization with atomization. As long as the alky is properly atomized it should get evenly distributed. And we only care about getting an even distribution of the atomized alcohol to all cylinders in the case of alky injection.

Kidglock had this happen to him in colder weather, yes. He was running mid 10s. Of course, the car running next to him was running low 10s in the mid 130 mphs all night injecting more alky, no issues. So that doesn't make sense does it? Most likey Kidglock's #2 was already damaged from a few weeks ago when the other side pushed a gasket from a lean condition. That side was never checked. Since they both logged runs in FAST it should be easy to tell if they were pulling more fuel than usual if this supposed false rich reading occurred. I inject probably 40% more alky than Kidglock does and have not had an issue in cold weather running 130+ mph. If this is an issue than the faster cars injecting the most alky should see it first.

 

[TurboBuRick]

That's what I'm doing. Boost down to 18psi. Alky gain on 4 with a single m15. Dual nozzle alky guy's should back down the gph as well.

As suggested, ambient temp as well as the charge temp should to be taken into consideration. Might not be a bad idea to bypass the intercooler during the cold months. The motor would prolly love it. The alky would be better off thats for sure.

 

[TurboBuRick]

For our scenario of alky injection flashpoint has nothing to do with it. Most of the the alky doesn't get vaporized until its in the chamber. Don't confuse vaporization with atomization. As long as the alky is properly atomized it should get evenly distributed. And we only care about getting an even distribution of the atomized alcohol to all cylinders in the case of alky injection.

Kidglock had this happen to him in colder weather, yes. He was running mid 10s. Of course, the car running next to him was running low 10s in the mid 130 mphs all night injecting more alky, no issues. So that doesn't make sense does it? Most likey Kidglock's #2 was already damaged from a few weeks ago when the other side pushed a gasket from a lean condition. That side was never checked. Since they both logged runs in FAST it should be easy to tell if they were pulling more fuel than usual if this supposed false rich reading occurred. I inject probably 40% more alky than Kidglock does and have not had an issue in cold weather running 130+ mph. If this is an issue than the faster cars injecting the most alky should see it first.

I respectively disagree. Alky will flash to vapor when atomized in hot intake charge.

A comparison of the log files might show the difference in the 2 cars.

 

[murphster]

I respectively disagree. Alky will flash to vapor when atomized in hot intake charge.

A comparison of the log files might show the difference in the 2 cars.

Only a small % of the alky is vaporized in the intake with a good front mount intercooler (we are talking about the typical situation for a fast car on dual nozzle). Most of it takes place in the chamber. The vaporization of the alky in the chamber is the one of the main reasons it works so well and contributes to its high effective octane rating.

 

[SHADOWII]

Much of the problems may be in the way we are tuning. I believe the majority of us are using the alchy for the cooling effect to raise the boost/timing. At higher levels, where you have to pull fuel and add more alchy, it may not be as noticeable? Again we are looking at falling temps below the 60's causing the problems. In my case it was 60's in theafternoon, and @ 2130 hrs. later it was 48*.

 

[Pronto]

Would running the engine warmer, say a 190* thermostat help the situation?

 

[Mr.Spool]

2 cars same night on the same track,one broken, one not with the faster one injecting more alky and gas makes me question how could it be the alky?if that was the case wouldn't any combo automatically get hurt?

 

[TurboBuRick]

Contrary to all the hype around a 160* stat, I've always run a 185*. I don't think it makes much difference in the intake charge temp but the motor will be more efficient and make more power IMO. Initial temp may be effected but high alky gph and cold ambient can overcome the heat from the motor rather quickly.