Condensation in my oil, is this normal? Update 05/21/2015 Found a problem

[earlbrown]

I looked at the pics of your intake gasket and really didn't see a smoking gun like I would have expected.

Post shots of both side of the head gaskets, deck surface and head surface (as best you can).

 

[Pronto]

I missed it, did you use studs? You could have a clamping issue with the nut bottoming out on the stud and not giving proper stretch to the stud. Post some pics of the studs if used them.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Those VR gaskets are pretty easy to seal. AS long as the heads don't sit down on the dowel or a stud is too long.

The heads were cleaned up, how much I don't really know. I haven't talked to Matt yet. The block was decked twice that I know of.

My biggest issue right now is the thought of pulling the engine again. I am burnt out.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I looked at the pics of your intake gasket and really didn't see a smoking gun like I would have expected.

Post shots of both side of the head gaskets, deck surface and head surface (as best you can).

I agree on the intake gasket.

We used head bolts and studs in the bottom end.

When I get some motivation I'll get the motor out and back on the stand. I'll get some pics then.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

The more I read of this story,it makes me want to cry. Do you think now the intake is sitting to low? Taking .015 off? If so, I have a un-touch, clean as a pin lower intake of a 11k car, I will give to you if you think that will help.

Ray

Thanks for the offer! I won't really know if I can use my current intake until I get the motor back together and sit it on. I'm going to have the heads CC'd when I get them off. I may need to go with thicker head gaskets than what I have now so it will change things again. The heads didn't get CC'd so I have no idea what my compression really is at this point. Don't think that's what caused the problem but if I'm much over 9.1 I need to know.

 

[1952ray]

Don't think you want or need to be over 9.1. However if you decide you need to change the intake the offer stands. Wish you luck. These cars at times are a real PIA

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Thank you I appreciate it.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

And so it begins, starting to pull the engine today. Should have it on the stand by tonight.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Here is the drivers side.

 

[Mike T]

Can you see where it was leaking from ?

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Better pictures. I think between cylinder 3 and 5. Not sure why. I guess the head gasket firing rings are fine. Husek said they come like that, I thought they were supposed to be perfectly round.

Bottom of head



Cylinder head to gasket



Block to gasket



Block

 

[earlbrown]

At the top of 3 and 5 your fire ring looks compromised is a very odd way. It's like it was pinched and had a step smashed in it. It's not supposed to be round like Dave said. If you look at the imprint on the head you can see that 'bump' is to make room for the intake valves unshrouded area.

You can see where the thick carbon layers were partially dissolved on the bottom on the piston crowns, so that's probably your condensation source.

I'm looking at the pattern on your heads. It looks like someone belt sanded them on the short side and turned the head while sliding it off or something. (this is from looking at 2D blurry pictures though). I'm guessing they aren't flat and there's low areas on the trailing edge of the water ports. From the looks of the combustion chambers someone has shaved/sanded the hell out of them.

I'd like to see the first pass on an actual surfacing machine. I bet it'll look like a topographical map.

 

[earlbrown]

This is a virgin head off my engine. This was after my car thieves locked up my oil pump and SMOKED the bottom end. The original gaskets were 100% intact and not leaking....

It took either .004" or 006" to clean the heads up (not sure what side this head is). Notice the three low spots leading right to water? That's from a factory finish not a sanded finish.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I have never seen a stock 46 CC chamber on one of these heads so I have no reference.

I will check the gasket in the morning in the areas that look pinched in the picture. May just be the picture but I didn't really look that close tonight.

I'm hoping to get the heads CC'd tomorrow. That will tell me a lot.

Thanks for the look Earl!

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

This is a virgin head off my engine. This was after my car thieves locked up my oil pump and SMOKED the bottom end. The original gaskets were 100% intact and not leaking....

It took either .004" or 006" to clean the heads up (not sure what side this head is). Notice the three low spots leading right to water? That's from a factory finish not a sanded finish.

Are those 46 CC chambers? If so mine look WAAAAAAAY smaller. Could just be because yours are clean and mine aren't. Sure does look like you have more surface than I do in the pictures.

I do see the difference in the finish.

 

[earlbrown]

Those are stock heads with OS valves stuck as far into the combustion chamber as I could get them. Look at how deep the stupid little square is on my heads and then compare them to yours...

...that's why I think you're have had the hell shaved out of them.

 

[pacecarta]

thats a blown gasket
from the pics you lifted the center cylinder (assume #3) and stretched the fire ring toward the valley and lost the fire ring ability to seal , that led to eroding the graphite away to the point that the water ports toward the valley between the center and end cylinders was breached and both end cylinders also show signs of lifting toward the valley and erosion of the graphite..thats your water source

no way i would have run your combo on stock gaskets (i know dave likes them) and expected them to hold, maybe pump gas stock boost tune .....but with alky or race fuel with 10 second (maybe 9 tuned right ) power ..i'd have installed cometics

 

[Pronto]

I asked earlier, were studs used? Possible you bottomed out on the stud and never got full clamping on the head in those spots.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I asked earlier, were studs used? Possible you bottomed out on the stud and never got full clamping on the head in those spots.

We used head bolts not studs. It's possible that could have happened since the heads look a little short (don't know for sure yet) having them CC'd now. The block has been decked twice that I know of. I'm about .017 in the hole now with a Wiseco 5109A3. That's my crude measurement. We will get all the calculations and compute what compression I was running.

I have the receipt from 2004 when the heads were bought new. The car stayed with that owner until 2007. I don't think the car was actually finished until some time in 2006 based on receipts. With the mods the car had at that time they were heading to the 1/4 mile length of pavement. Motor to suspension. The story I got from the guy who bought the car in 2007 is that they never raced it. Just built it and decided to sell it. Once he took ownership he joined this board. I looked through all of his threads until I bought the car and no information about a head gasket failure or the motor coming apart so I figured the heads were virgin. He did have a thread about running too much boost without alky and was very worried. The he installed alky. He should have been worried because he repeatedly detonated the sh&t out of the motor. Ask me how I know. Now some people have a little more vanity than others so rather than posting his error he may have had it fixed and kept quiet. Not me, when I do something stupid I tell someone smarter than me so I become less stupid. Makes sense to me.

Now we all know how long it takes to blow a head gasket so maybe somewhere in there the heads came off, got shaved and re-installed with no paper trail. However, the motor had .100 cometics on it when I took it apart. The question should be answered once we CC the heads. If they're short there's your answer. If they're not then maybe they were trying to lower compression for whatever reason?

My plan at this point is to CC the heads and make sure they're good to sell. I want the new owner to know where they stand on CC volume. My heads are done right. Springs, locks, retainers etc. I bought the best of everything. Valve job is done with new seals as well.

Going with T/A aluminums set up just like my current heads. Better springs; locks and retainers. Cometic gaskets and studs. I have no doubt that guys run the stock type gasket and get away with it. I never get away with anything so I'm not going risk it. I also may need a custom built head gasket to achieve a certain compression ratio so I may need a cometic anyway.

There are some plusses for me in this situation. I have learned a ton about my car. I no longer wonder about how it works under the hood. I know every nut and bolt personally. That's a good thing and I mean that sincerely. I have good friends willing to help that know how to help. I'll fix it and move on.

 

[Pronto]

At this point, if you were you I'd ditch the irons and go for brand new set of al heads and done with it. Your build will scream with them.