Crazy Starter Issues

[GNDriven]

I'm so close to firing up my new stage II build. I got to say this thing has fought me every step, nothing easy. Currently I am having a starter prob.

My stock starter will not fit for my aftermarket oil pan has a lip that sticks out further than the block. So I have tried a mini starter from G-body Parts, and an 96 LT4 starter. The LT4 starter is still on the car.

The starter gear engages the flywheel turns the motor fine, but gets stuck and will not return to its original position. I am guessing that is how it operates, the starter is pulled back to its original in with a spring or something right?

I have placed several shims hoping to bring the starter gear toward the bottom of the flywheel (the teeth are moving away from the starter gear at this point on the flywheel curve). I have appox 1/4 of an inch of shims on there - crazy.

I can push the starter gear off the flywheel with a screwdriver with little effort. So I do not understand why the gear is getting stuck.

 

[GNDriven]

I measured the diameter of the starter gear on all three trying to come up with some explanation to this. The stock starter measures 0.975" and the MINI starter measures 1.145" a difference of 0.139" so the gear is wider on the mini-starter and is the same as the LT4 starter. So could this be the cause?

 

[TurboBuRick]

Looks like the new starter has more teeth on the gear. If that's the case, that could be the problem.

 

[GNDriven]

OK you're right my stock starter has 9 teeth the replacements have 11 teeth.

 

[GNDriven]

These are the replacements everyone uses when going mini. I used this same JW flexplate on the previous 109 setup and had no issues.

 

[GNDriven]

OK so the correct terminology is 9-tooth pinion vs an 11 tooth pinion. Could this be the issue. Thanks

 

[TurboBuRick]

Pretty clear the gear spacing is different. More teeth put them closer together.

Just my observation.

 

[GNDriven]

I have read so many threads and info on 168 tooth / 153 tooth flexplates until my eyes feel like they are going to melt and run down my face.

I can not find a clear source that outlines which tooth starter gear goes with which flexplate. Anybody have a good source or just know

 

[boostedyards86]

funny, i'm having the same issue with starters on my 68 camaro... it keeps getting stuck on the flywheel as well, no matter how many shims i put in.

 

[GNDriven]

My JW flexplate Part# 93007 has 160 teeth. Anyone know if this is the same as stock? And if so, how is the 11 tooth pinion gear working? I guess I have to get a ministarter with a 9 tooth gear??

 

[GNDriven]

Gbodyparts.com website states the ministarter is for a 168 tooth ONLY

 

[DailyDrifter]

Might try throwing some shims in there, may or may no solve the problem

 

[GNDriven]

CAT flexplate part# FP-231N
BUICK 231
14.32"OD/160T, W/O weight, '78-87

 

[mikestertwo]

In the 3rd picture (closeup shot) the tooth pitch on the starter does not seem to be the same as the pitch on the flywheel.

 

[GNDriven]

Some light on the subject:
I talked with Paul at CSR Performance.
First lets compile the different flexplates and starter gears I have come across so far.
Flexplates – Cheve = 153/168 tooth
Buick = 160 tooth. These all have different diameters as far as I can tell.
Starter gear = 11 tooth / 9 tooth. My stock starter has 9.
I am going to attempt to re-say what Paul at CSR said…
First, is that the 9 tooth and 11 tooth gears all have a standard 12 Diametral pitch.
Second, It is common to see the starter gear (spur gear) to remain engaged in the flexplate if the engine does not crank. The release mechanism is built into the starter and is a form of a Helical gear that when the flexplate spins faster than the starter ratio, the helix gear drives the starter gear back to its initial position.
CSR makes only 9 tooth starter gears and advertises one for a 160 tooth flexplate (part# 103)
So as long as I have the proper clearance between the gears when they are engaged, then I should try to start the engine. Once started if the spur gear does not retract, then I def have a problem. The flexplate is turning appox 18 times faster than the starter gear, so once cranked the start gear is no longer a gear reduction, but desctruction!!
GM must have machined the starter bolt holes in the Buick blocks in a strategic position so that it could use the same cheve starter for its 168 tooth flexplate on the 160 tooth flexplate. Crazy what you find when trying to run something to ground.

 

[charlief1]

I have read so many threads and info on 168 tooth / 153 tooth flexplates until my eyes feel like they are going to melt and run down my face.

I kow this may sound dumb, but why are you reading up on flexplates for a chevy small block? Dimentions for the chevy small flywheel is the same as the Bucik V6 and V8. All the Buicks RWD V type engines use the same tooth count on the flexplate from what I remember.

 

[GNDriven]

I believe they are the same pitch.This is why the 11 tooth starter gear is larger in diameter than the 9 tooth. To keep the same pitch.

 

[GNDriven]

Buick uses a 160 tooth, Cheve uses a 153 or 168 tooth.
I was reading up on 168 tooth because the Gbodyparts.com web page says this Buick ministarter is for a 168 tooth flexplate ONLY. So I assumed the Buick flexplate was 168 tooth, but its not.

 

[GNDriven]

Got a few more confirmations from reputable ministarter companies, that the spur starter gear gets turned by the engine to spin itself off.
SO I am going to try and crank the engine with the LT4 starter with only a few shims

 

[Louie L.]

Speaking from experience: You need to use the shouldered stock style bolts to install. Too much play on a standard grade 8 bolt. Ive had this type of starter can come out of the box bad.. Just went thru this on my buds S2.
Once you have the correct bolts on, shim the starter until it disengages if there are no other issues.