Cut Open Oil Filter - What To Look For??

[PaulRV6]

Trying to get to the bottom of low oil pressure problem, I cut open my oil filter after about 30-40 miles of street driving to look for any debris. Cut the top off and pulled out filter element but not sure what to look for or how bad is bad. I read where it is really obvious on the filter if there was a bearing failure. I am seeing very fine specs of shiny material but I am not sure if it isn't the filings from cutting the can open.
Anyone else have any expierence with this and how to determine bearing failure or excessive wear? Thanks

paul

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by PaulRV6
........ Cut the top off and pulled out filter element but not sure what to look for or how bad is bad. I read where it is really obvious on the filter if there was a bearing failure. I am seeing very fine specs of shiny material but I am not sure if it isn't the filings from cutting the can open. paul

How did you cut the filter? If you used a hack saw instead of a filter cutter [like a big can opener], you are probably seeing filings from the can.

Open the filter media and look into the deep folds and see if any shiny stuff there towards the botton away from the cut.

The cars I service all have magnetic drain plugs, so iron or steel particles are seen there. Bearing material will show up in the filter.

 

[PaulRV6]

Nick I used tin snips to cut the top off. Is there some idea of amount of material that would alarm me of bearing premature wear? I never looked inside one of these before.

paul

 

[PaulRV6]

ENGINE BUILDER GURUS PLEASE

After further review of the oil filter, there is a lot of what looks to be shiny material in the bottom of the filter can. I checked with a magnet and nothing is magnetic. Is this normal wear from a fresh engine? What is all this material?
What do you engine gurus think?

paul

 

[VIN7]

Could it be aluminum from the oil pump housing? When you take the housings apart they all have score marks, that alum must be going to the filter at some point.

Mike

 

[PaulRV6]

Could be, its either alum or babbit from the brgs. I am going to change oil and put new filter in and run it for a while and check filter again. See if it gets worse or better.

paul

 

[Steve Wood]

As you have so little oil pressure, it might be a good idea to start looking for the problem rather than taking a chance that more major damage may occur with time.

 

[motorhead]

Rather than have Paul sh!tting his pants over (potentially) nothing... lets try something simple, before we encourage him to rebuild his engine.

Now Paul, you said that the material wasn't magnetic... You have, as stated, a 50% chance that it IS aluminum. You claim low oil pressure... and a worn pump gear thrust surface will do this. Take the pump assy off and examine the thrust surface... is it worn? More so than just some "swirls"? If so, you may care to try a $20 booster plate.

If it is babbit...

Not every knock or metal shaving means it is rebuild time... there are perfectly good explainations for everything... take your time and patiently and systematically examine the minor things first.

Good luck,

 

[Steve Wood]

Originally posted by Mr. T
Rather than have Paul sh!tting his pants over (potentially) nothing... lets try something simple, before we encourage him to rebuild his engine.


Good luck,

Who encouraged him to rebuild his engine? I believe I suggested that he find out what the problem is.

I am a bit amused/amazed over what you call potentially nothing, however. Lack of oil pressure often ends up with a rod thru the block or a new crank and a set of rods....Perhaps a little time spent now might prevent him from a rebuild now. Driving it and hoping it does not break anything is a high risk option.

 

[PaulRV6]

I appreciate all the support and recommendations but this is what I think I am going to do.
- Install 2nd oil press gage to verify pressure.
- Remove relief valve in pump and check for stuck open valve.
- Drain & fill with fresh oil and install new filter.
Run car normally for a week or so (50-100 miles) and check oil filter again while verifying oil pressure.
The oil filter adapter / pump gears are new so if there were any heavy wear marks on that cover I think I would have other problems.
The engine has not been making any unusual noise as would be expected if bearings were going away.
This is my plan for now unless I get some other brainstorms.
Thanks again.

paul

 

[motorhead]

Originally posted by Steve Wood
Who encouraged him to rebuild his engine? I believe I suggested that he find out what the problem is.

I am a bit amused/amazed over what you call potentially nothing, however. Lack of oil pressure often ends up with a rod thru the block or a new crank and a set of rods....Perhaps a little time spent now might prevent him from a rebuild now. Driving it and hoping it does not break anything is a high risk option.

Steve, that wasn't intended to be a shot at you (I guess that it could have been interpreted as such because my post followed yours). Believe me. I have read enough archived posts regarding low oil pressure, knocking, and metal contamination. And it seems that 9 of 10 posts in each of these topics there are a horde of "itza spun bearing... time for a rebuild" responses.

Like yourself, I want to see Paul take it a step at a time and diagnosis the problem... and not create more work for himself.

Personally, I know of a few cars up here that idle with 5#s of pressure at idle... but have the gauge shoot up like a tach under load. Go figure.

Again, no offense...

And, good luck Paul

 

[Nick Micale]

Looking through the post, do not see what Paul considers "low oil pressure". Paul???

My thought was to run it a hunded miles or so and cut the filter to verify. BUT, I did not post that since I don't know what low is for Paul!

 

[Steve Wood]

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=44628&referrerid=2592

6# at idle, 33# at 2400 rpm, new engine, metal in the filter.

Drive it another 100 miles?

 

[PaulRV6]

I am considering low oil pressure 5 psi at idle (hot). See below from my earlier post dated June 24. I posted about "low oil pressure"

Steve, got some data today, it was 85 deg out and engine temp was at 180 deg.
-Cold (first start) oil press at 2000 rpm was 59 psi.
-Idle while warming up was 22 psi.
-After full operating temp (from driving around):
-1750 rpm oil press at 29psi
-Idle hot 5 psi
-Back to 2400 rpm hot oil press is 33 psi

paul

 

[Steve Wood]

It's too low in my opinion...I would not worry about the low idle so much if it was rising more when driving.

The easiest thing is to do what you suggested...check the relief valve to be sure something is not holding it slightly open.

Then, I would probably pull the cover off the pump and make sure something is not awry there.

When you change the oil and drive it a bit...use a knife or a large tubing cutter to open the filter with so it does not leave shavings behind. If you find more powder and it is not metallic, it almost has to be from bearings or the front cover.

I may be overly cautious but everytime I try driving them to find out if anything happens, it does.

 

[Nick Micale]

The 5 psi at idle would make me nervous.

What oil filter brand and number is it?

[Or is this in another post too?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Lo OP??

I'm w/ the "other old fart" here... Find the source before you drive it again!!
It takes <1hr to pull the pan. WHY take the chance?? PULL the pan and take a look. AT 33psi at 2400, that's BELOW the BUICK shop manual for recommended pressure... Then again, it's your engine... knock yourself out!!!
Why would you think it might get "better"??? BELIEVE US!! It WILL get only worse!! Problems like these do not heal themelves

 

[Brian Schauder]

Not sure with a Buick motor since I only have knowledge of Fords,but if you have trash in the filter on Ford you have a problem.I've seen all kinds of stuff in a filter after intial break-in and what what your describing is bad.Make sure you get the oil filter cut open cleanly.I would not put to many miles on it until you find out what is causing the problem.If you get the pan off I would take a look at the thrust bearing also.

 

[PaulRV6]

I think I will add to my list removal of the pan to check screen and #1 main brg (which supposedly is the one to check). What has to be done to remove pan with eng in car?

paul

 

[Fred 86 GN]

Not to throw a wrench in the works here, but FWIW my rebuilt engine would only produce about 10psi of oil pressure once warmed up at idle. I had a booster plate, new pump, and new front cover installed. All the bearing clearances plasti-gaged between 0.0015 and 0.002". I thought this was too low of oil pressure so a couple weeks ago I did an oil change. Looked in the oil filter with a flashlight and saw some very fine metallic looking dust in the bottom. None came out of the engine or the filter when I drained the oil. I put 15W50 synthetic in to see the difference in oil pressure. I did not see much difference -- until just recently I noticed a increase to 20psi.

Wonder what changed?