Double Roller Timing Chain and Tensioner question ?

[tufbuick]

On a new engine rebuild is it O.K. to use the old loose double roller timing chain and a tensioner to take up the slack ?
Or should I get a new double roller chain and new gears and not use the tensioner ?

 

[TurboTGuy]

In the overall picture, how much more money would you be spending on new timing parts compared to all the other money you are putting into a new build?

 

[1KWIKSIX]

On a new engine rebuild is it O.K. to use the old loose double roller timing chain and a tensioner to take up the slack ?
Or should I get a new double roller chain and new gears and not use the tensioner ?

Absolutely not!
Never run the tensioner on a double roller timing chain.

Alternatively, you could go with TA Performance Billet Gears & Single Timing Chain that utilizes a tensioner

 

[tufbuick]

In the overall picture, how much more money would you be spending on new timing parts compared to all the other money you are putting into a new build?

I think I heard that it is a Cardinal Rule that with the Buick Turbo v6 it was common knowledge to never to use a tensioner on a double roller chain because the chain will eat up the nylon button on the tensioner and send it into the gears and clog up the oiling system and ruin the engine or even cause other serious problems behind the timing cover. I just wanted to verify this with some educated opinions.

 

[chris romani]

Do not use it I had a moron rebuild me a motor years ago he used one and it ruined the motor.

 

[TurboTGuy]

Read your own question. "Use the old loose double roller timing chain and a tensioner to take up the slack?"

Cost/Risk is the deciding factor here. You do the math.

I don't know anyone who would still use a tensioner on a double roller timing chain and using old timing parts in a new build is even more of a recipe for disaster, but that's just my opinion.

Good luck.

 

[jasjamz]

On a new engine rebuild is it O.K. to use the old loose double roller timing chain and a tensioner to take up the slack ?
Or should I get a new double roller chain and new gears and not use the tensioner ?

I like simple answers. First question...No and second question yes.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[TurboTGuy]

^^^^^ There is your answer, short and sweet.^^^^^

Heed this advice.

 

[mikestertwo]

I would use the tensioner/damper as long as the roller chain has straight links. I use to think it was a bad idea to use the damper from advise I was given. I found the problems associated with using the damper were unfounded. Here is a picture of a damper in my engine with 60K miles with a roller chain. The damper had no discernible wear on it. You can go either way...it's your engine...

 

[dank GN]

I have not and would not use the stock tensioner on a double roller. If u read just about everywhere about building these motors they will all say DO NOT use it with a double roller . TA does sell a nice single roller chain that you could and should use the stock tensioner on . But hey like the post above me says it’s your motor so if you want to put a Grenade in there that’s your call . Good luck on your build and hope it all works out for you .

 

[Grumpy]

and here we go !!! I see you've set aside special time to humiliate yourself in public again

 

[turbo nasty]

On a new engine rebuild is it O.K. to use the old loose double roller timing chain and a tensioner to take up the slack ?
Or should I get a new double roller chain and new gears and not use the tensioner ?

If you have lighter valve spring psi's then use the TA single roller timing set and tensioner, look in their catalog and I believe its 300 and change psi's and less you can use it.

 

[1986 Buick GX1]

I would use the tensioner/damper as long as the roller chain has straight links. I use to think it was a bad idea to use the damper from advise I was given. I found the problems associated with using the damper were unfounded. Here is a picture of a damper in my engine with 60K miles with a roller chain. The damper had no discernible wear on it. You can go either way...it's your engine...View attachment 341440View attachment 341441

The safe general answer is don't use the factory tensioner with a double roller timing chain.

As above, the factory tensioner has been used with double roller timing chains that have oval (actually elongated circles) shaped links.

Definitely don't use the tensioner with double roller timing chains that have figure 8 shaped links. The figure 8 shaped links act like saw teeth and cut right through the tensioner filling the oil pump pick up screen full of debris, starving the engine of oil.

The timing chain you have is worn and should be replaced. Some replace the timing chain every few thousand miles on high hp builds as preventive maintenance.

 

[Jerryl]

Regardless of yes/no findings and experiences;
If the double roller timing chain is the correct one, a tensioner is not needed and installing one won't do anything.
What's more important is to degree the cam and knowing before/after timing, even when simply replacing the timing chain or set.
Whatever you decide, don't install a cheap/cast double roller set.

 

[captndave737]

I had replaced mine a couple of times in the past. Didn’t use a tensioner but the chain had a little slop. When I was rebuilding at RC’s I found out chains came in different sizes. They ordered the correct undersized chain and now it’s tight.

 

[mikestertwo]

They ordered the correct undersized chain and now it’s tight.

It won't be tight for long.

 

[captndave737]

It will be tighter than a standard size chain though.

 

[grass doctor]

I will be putting in a red roll master , don't you have to use the cam button and that's it ??

 

[tufbuick]

O.K., then I guess we all agree, "NEVER USE A TENSIONER ON A DOUBLE ROLLER CHAIN" !
I posed the question before this post so we could get an honest unbiased answer from some of the members who reamed me out for
even having the nerve to accusing someone of doing shoddy work on my motor. When you hire the best you expect the best, not the case here.

Now before you read what I am about to post, let's keep in mind that we are all human and we all can make mistakes,
but it takes a real "MAN" to admit when they screwed up and also a real man would do everything to make things right.
Understand and put yourself in my shoes, screw me once, my bad, screw me twice, your done no matter what you might offer
to fix what I have found inside my NEWLY BUILT MOTOR.
All I want is an honest answer of why used parts were put into my motor when it was rebuilt, as I was told everything would be new !

I don't care if this person is your father, uncle, best friend or this web sites favorite vendor, right is right and this situation is so wrong.

I have texted this scenario and photos to RCG and so far no responce. Let's see if he is man enough to answer me and compensate me
for all the extra money "I" had to spend to make his rebuild 100% or is he going to continue to try and blame me for this crappy rebuild.
I have photos, videos and all the bills it took to fix his screw up.

There are two sides to every story, so don't ignore this. WHY DID YOU USE MY OLD WORN OUT CHAIN and put a tensioner on it.



This is what I got for hiring the Top Turbo guy to rebuild my motor

Many of you know the story of my engine horror show with North Carolinas so called Turbo Jesus. I posted the story here and was swiftly reamed by his loyal brand followers. He built me an everything "NEW" short block that is a piece of shit, my new Gessler heads were on the motor. After going back and forth he was pissed that I didn't pay him for looking for a noise he created. He tried to blame me after the motor was back at his shop "TWICE" with no repair to the noise. The motor was in and out of this car twice for him to fix. He checked the bearings and went no further. He also said to bring the whole car to him and he would fix it, B.S.. This money grabber was so pissed about what he though I owed him for looking for "HIS" noise, that I could smell a mechanics lien a mile away on my vehicle in his shop. This is one arrogant old coot that has zero customer satisfaction on his mind. Bring my car to him to fix, you got two try's and at this point he couldn't tie my shoe as far as I'm concerned.

He installed a bad set of lifters and from other things I discovered they were probably my old ones as they did not appear on my bill.
I found that problem myself, a freaken Rookie ! My mechanic installed a new set of lifters and that noise was gone.

Next scenario was a horrible noise that showed its head when I was just driving local, WHAM, WTF ! Shut this damn thing down and called a flat bed to tow it to my house. (This motor took over a year of B.S. and back and forth with him and has under 150 miles on it). In discussed this car sat on my lift for 3 months, I covered it and didn't even want to look at it.

I am not a mechanic but after listening to the noise coming from behind my timing cover I decided to take a look and this is what I found:
1- The cam button spring broke sending the button and spring into my gears and chain.
2- That broke my tensioner bolt off and the tensioner and tensioner spring took a ride on my gears and my "DOUBLE ROLLER CHAIN". **
** Doesn't the whole Turbo World know that you don't use a tensioner on a Double Roller Chain ! ! !
3- The chain was my old ass sloppy chain that this clown thought no one would ever discover, so he put a tensioner to quiet it down. **
** He was told to replace "ANY" worn out parts on the rebuild.
4- I had to replace.....Timing Chain and Gears, Cam Button and Spring, "NEW" Front Cover, (mine was galled and cracked), "NEW" Oil Pump, Cam Sensor Gear, and the Crank Sensor bracket was cracked because someone tightened it to much. Fortunately all these loose parts would up between the front main cap and the cover. I shut this thing down so fast that the oil was in good shape.

Used parts and shoddy workmanship seems to be his M.O.! And a Tensioner on a Double Roller Chain......SHAME ON YOU ! ! !
Maybe you thought you were pulling the wool over my eyes but I have photos, videos and all the bills for everything I had to buy to fix what "HE" F'ed up !

So......The Turbo Jesus couldn't find what he F'ed up (or he didn't give a shit) only wanted more money. Well the ROOKIE FIXED ALL (at my additional expense) and now it finally runs perfect. My first time wrenching on this G.N. and I'm the original owner. Now who owes who money "TURBO JESUS" ! ! !

 

[TurboTGuy]

Annnnnnd, we're off.

(I have no dog in this hunt, just watching. Jason is a straight up guy in my dealings with him)

Good look to you, sir.