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- May 28, 2001
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OK since I don't know what I am talking about what is your secret to run 28 psi and E85 on a stock coil pack?
Please do share this wisdom.
E85 car tuning
- Thread starter joeb1300
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OK since I don't know what I am talking about what is your secret to run 28 psi and E85 on a stock coil pack?
Please do share this wisdom.
BEATAV8
The Engine Whisperer
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2002
- Messages
- 5,662
I've had good results using a stock coil pack with E85 and high boost. No secret for it I guess I just never ran into an issue? I use the autolite racing plugs AR 132 or 133 and magnecor wires.
I'm afraid there isn't anything special I'm doing .. there are 100's of cars running E85 @ > 25 psi with the stock coil pack ...
This isn't anything new ... point blank you don't need a TR6 for sure to turn up the wick on E85.
People blame the coil pack for other things not being correct .. or the replace the coil pack to mask other deficiencies .
Rafs-T-Type
Not so Senior Member
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- Mar 8, 2009
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Stock coil here. I think I've hit around 31#'s - no issues.
Rafs-T-Type
Not so Senior Member
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- Mar 8, 2009
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Pretty sure they have high ind 120's now.
They do, even have 130's but they do not work very well yet .. I'm sure with a bit more time on the tuning they will be solid .. but its a slow road getting there.
That and they are pretty pricey compared to the 80's
TT/Ameasap
The White Blur
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- Jan 31, 2002
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- 5,374
Soon as i swapped to E85 and no other changes, my stock coil pack could not ignite the fuel. this resulted in a break up at WOT. I had to gap plugs very tight to get it to run smooth. Just sayin.
I could do a stock coil on 28psi at 500-600hp but no way at all could I do it on 28psi at 850-900hp. Not all 28psi are the same. What I found using stock ignitions is you tend to have to lean the mixture to get a clean fire. With a cdi I can fatten up the mixture and make more torque.
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@joeb1300; Joe, there is not going to be anyone on here that can take the information given and put you right on a 100% solution. At best we can throw you ideas of what it may be, that you might not be aware. The best thing you can do is provide feedback on what the engine is doing with the changes you are making . This thread like most of these threads is turning into a an anecdotal back and forth on what works for E85, and not addressing your feedback.
IMO, the issue you described is an over-boost condition. I do not think it is an issue with the engine not being able to overcome the E85. IMO, the engine is detonating badly at WOT, and then feels strong at part throttle because it is not detonating. Like someone stated, turn the boost down to a safe amount = 16psi. You must get the boost under control or people are just going to shake their heads and read about you blowing up that nice new engine. I would not worry about the injectors size, coil pack(maybe), anything else that may or may not be limiting the overall performance of the engine. I think you have everything you need right now ;including the power-logger, to be able to make a clean pass at full throttle and low boost ~ 16psi. Take some time to understand the stock type internal wastegate, that you posted in the pic. Keep the electronic controller off for now (good suggestion whoever it was) and get the boost down to match the fuel being delivered into the combustion chambers.
IMO, the issue you described is an over-boost condition. I do not think it is an issue with the engine not being able to overcome the E85. IMO, the engine is detonating badly at WOT, and then feels strong at part throttle because it is not detonating. Like someone stated, turn the boost down to a safe amount = 16psi. You must get the boost under control or people are just going to shake their heads and read about you blowing up that nice new engine. I would not worry about the injectors size, coil pack(maybe), anything else that may or may not be limiting the overall performance of the engine. I think you have everything you need right now ;including the power-logger, to be able to make a clean pass at full throttle and low boost ~ 16psi. Take some time to understand the stock type internal wastegate, that you posted in the pic. Keep the electronic controller off for now (good suggestion whoever it was) and get the boost down to match the fuel being delivered into the combustion chambers.
Thanks GNDriven. I will as soon as i get the power logger in. I found my map screens in my air filter so i ordered a new one with a new tps wot reading was not consistent with pedal. So replacing this also. Map and rps should be here today will hope to fire this up tonight. Thanks to all who has commented on this and will post findings .
I apologize if you are anyone else already knows this, but I am trying to help,
The stocks style works like this, the wastegate has an internal spring inside a round metal housing that is pulling on the rod that you see extended out from the housing. Grab the rod with your hands, you can pull on the rod compressing the internal spring. Connected to the other end of the rod is lever arm that disappears into the exhaust outlet of the turbo. Connected to the lever arm is a flap "puck", this puck covers up a hole in the exhaust housing that is directly bolted to the exhaust outlet of the turbo. The function of the hole in the turbo is to allow exhaust energy to bypass the turbine of the turbo thus not provide any energy in spinning the turbine blades, thus not spinning the compressor side of the turbo, thus not creating boost. If this hole was not covered by the puck at all, the exhaust (energy) would have two paths to flow into the downpipe. One being through the turbine blades thus spinning the turbine blades in the process, the other is through the bypass hole (wastegate port) which would not spin the turbine blades. I guess that is why it is called a WASTEgate lol. Anyway, The stock wastegate is pulling on the lever arm keeping it closed. This forces all of the exhaust through the turbine blades which creates airflow on the cold air side of the turbo (compressor). This flow of air eventually fills the engine and starts becoming pressure (boost). Meanwhile the exhaust pipes are filling with air and pressure is building as well (back-pressure). This pressure starts to really push hard on the puck. When the pressure is great enough it overpowers the springs ability to keep it closed and thus opening the wastegate hole. A portion of the exhaust gas exits through this hole and does not add to the force that is driving the turbo. The net affect of this is the boost decreases in the intake manifold.
The purpose of the black vacuum hose going to the wastegate port is to actually help the exhaust push open the spring. It helps to compress the spring closed from the opposite side that the exhaust pressure is pulling. Pressure is coming from the turbo and is being directed into that round metal housing of the wastegate. This helps compress the pressure spring and helps the exhaust open the puck. Think of it as someone pulling from one side and as someone pushes from the other in a team effort to compress the spring. If you take the vacuum hose directly to the wastegate port, the result will be lowest possible boost setting the engine can have. This is derived from the amount of pressure it takes to compress the spring. The stock wastegate has spring that is more easy to compress than an aftermarket heavy duty one. Stronger the spring in the wastegate the more force the exhaust has to exert on the puck to open it before it can bypass the blades of the turbine, resulting in a lower intake manifold air pressure (boost). When the hose is disconnected from the wastegate port the result will be the highest possible engine boost. A lot of times an adjusting valve will be placed in-line and so you can adjust how much help the pressure of the intake manifold will help in lowering the boost (pushing on the spring, helping the exhaust open the puck).
The stocks style works like this, the wastegate has an internal spring inside a round metal housing that is pulling on the rod that you see extended out from the housing. Grab the rod with your hands, you can pull on the rod compressing the internal spring. Connected to the other end of the rod is lever arm that disappears into the exhaust outlet of the turbo. Connected to the lever arm is a flap "puck", this puck covers up a hole in the exhaust housing that is directly bolted to the exhaust outlet of the turbo. The function of the hole in the turbo is to allow exhaust energy to bypass the turbine of the turbo thus not provide any energy in spinning the turbine blades, thus not spinning the compressor side of the turbo, thus not creating boost. If this hole was not covered by the puck at all, the exhaust (energy) would have two paths to flow into the downpipe. One being through the turbine blades thus spinning the turbine blades in the process, the other is through the bypass hole (wastegate port) which would not spin the turbine blades. I guess that is why it is called a WASTEgate lol. Anyway, The stock wastegate is pulling on the lever arm keeping it closed. This forces all of the exhaust through the turbine blades which creates airflow on the cold air side of the turbo (compressor). This flow of air eventually fills the engine and starts becoming pressure (boost). Meanwhile the exhaust pipes are filling with air and pressure is building as well (back-pressure). This pressure starts to really push hard on the puck. When the pressure is great enough it overpowers the springs ability to keep it closed and thus opening the wastegate hole. A portion of the exhaust gas exits through this hole and does not add to the force that is driving the turbo. The net affect of this is the boost decreases in the intake manifold.
The purpose of the black vacuum hose going to the wastegate port is to actually help the exhaust push open the spring. It helps to compress the spring closed from the opposite side that the exhaust pressure is pulling. Pressure is coming from the turbo and is being directed into that round metal housing of the wastegate. This helps compress the pressure spring and helps the exhaust open the puck. Think of it as someone pulling from one side and as someone pushes from the other in a team effort to compress the spring. If you take the vacuum hose directly to the wastegate port, the result will be lowest possible boost setting the engine can have. This is derived from the amount of pressure it takes to compress the spring. The stock wastegate has spring that is more easy to compress than an aftermarket heavy duty one. Stronger the spring in the wastegate the more force the exhaust has to exert on the puck to open it before it can bypass the blades of the turbine, resulting in a lower intake manifold air pressure (boost). When the hose is disconnected from the wastegate port the result will be the highest possible engine boost. A lot of times an adjusting valve will be placed in-line and so you can adjust how much help the pressure of the intake manifold will help in lowering the boost (pushing on the spring, helping the exhaust open the puck).
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Key ON, engine OFF, TPS should be 0.042Vdc with the pedal not being pressed. Full throttle should read above 4.65Vdc at full throttle, I mean press hard into the carpet. A lot of times you have to move the TPS forward as far as it will go toward the front of the engine to get these results. I have even seen a round file taken to the TPS holes to elongate them so that the sensor can be pushed forward more.
Yes i figured that out thanks.lol so if my wastegate is a 17 to 30# . i need to pull lever shorter to allow some relief of pressure? Otherwise it would hold till 30#. Is this correct? My aem controller/gauge has to lines coming out. One is to wastegate other to turbo. Is this pulling vacuum from turbo thru controller then wastegate?
If I can remember right, been a long time since I messed with a stock setup, shortening the lever arm increases the net amount of boost.
Reason: Setting the rod length is equivalent to placing a initial amount of spring pre-load pressure on the wastegate puck. In other words, shortening the rod places an initial amount of spring pressure on the puck trying to keep it closed. If you could stick your finger through the turbo and try to push on the puck, you would notice that shorting the rod makes it harder for it to be initially opened. The higher the puck is pre-loaded with spring pressure the higher amount of exhaust pressure is required to initially open the puck allowing for additional exhaust pressure to be bypassed. On the engine intake side the pressure in the intake manifold also reaches a higher amount before the wastegate bypass is opened, because it is directly related to how much the turbine is spinning. Both the engine intake manifold pressure and exhaust pressure stabilize once the puck has opened, not contributing to additional turbine spin.
Reason: Setting the rod length is equivalent to placing a initial amount of spring pre-load pressure on the wastegate puck. In other words, shortening the rod places an initial amount of spring pressure on the puck trying to keep it closed. If you could stick your finger through the turbo and try to push on the puck, you would notice that shorting the rod makes it harder for it to be initially opened. The higher the puck is pre-loaded with spring pressure the higher amount of exhaust pressure is required to initially open the puck allowing for additional exhaust pressure to be bypassed. On the engine intake side the pressure in the intake manifold also reaches a higher amount before the wastegate bypass is opened, because it is directly related to how much the turbine is spinning. Both the engine intake manifold pressure and exhaust pressure stabilize once the puck has opened, not contributing to additional turbine spin.
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