Ebay Ta Performance Knock Offs L@@k Inside For Pictures

[white88montess]

China is the #1 steel producer in the world and have been for a few years followed by Japan. Yet they still do have major economic problems. As they become a more legitimate player in the world market, instead of the boot-leg vendor, the cost of exporting items will rise. Copyright, consumer laws, worker rights and bureaucracy will plague them like the rest of the world.

However, does anyone know that the headers in question are actually made in china?

^now thats a question worth asking........

 

[ThatDamGoldCar]

i believe they are,another post said something about clearing customs????

 

[SouthernCal GN]

In the Turbo Buick market there aren't a thousand people to sell wool sweaters to. The vendors spend time R&Ding a product for a limited market, price their products based on known limited demand, and then get ripped off by someone stealing the design and mass-producing it.

I understand everyone has their own budgets, personal opinions and welding skills so you make your decisions accordingly. I almost bought a set of those myself, but I was afraid that I'd wind up having to pay someone to fix them since I don't weld.

Jim

Well put.

Sam, there's a major vendor on the boards that had an IC ripped by aonther vendor; that vendor had Chinese knockoff ICs made, and was selling them at a substantial reduction from the original vendor.

Problem- the end tank blew off at about 18 PSI!

You get what you pay for- good or bad. You list potential repairs you can do to those headers if things aren't quite right; you've just proven my point. They're crap, and you bought them knowing that.

I just bought a turbo (T-66 BB) and I didn't go into the purchase with a plan to fix whatever may have been wrong with it- I bought it from a vendor that deals in reputable products, so I know it's right.

There will always be a market for solid quality over cheap price. I'll stick with quality. Good luck with those headers

 

[pitch black]

Its amazing to me you guys think you actually know what the profit margins are for these vendor. If you think you can make something of similar quality for less try. I know from personal experience you can't. As far as chinese quality , in my experiences of buying from manufactures over there they run the gambit like us manufacturers. They just have the support of the govt over there.

 

[SAMBALLS1]

Well put.

Sam, there's a major vendor on the boards that had an IC ripped by aonther vendor; that vendor had Chinese knockoff ICs made, and was selling them at a substantial reduction from the original vendor.

Problem- the end tank blew off at about 18 PSI!

You get what you pay for- good or bad. You list potential repairs you can do to those headers if things aren't quite right; you've just proven my point. They're crap, and you bought them knowing that.

I just bought a turbo (T-66 BB) and I didn't go into the purchase with a plan to fix whatever may have been wrong with it- I bought it from a vendor that deals in reputable products, so I know it's right.

There will always be a market for solid quality over cheap price. I'll stick with quality. Good luck with those headers

I'll stick with a good product, I still just can't get over a $715 dollar difference. Man for $715 dollars I get a ton of more equipment for my car.... I could buy a powerlogger and gen II and all the accessories... I just can't get over it.....
Sorry can't be beat! if It were 100 difference yes maybe even 300 bucks difference I would buy US made....

All these people make these products or buy cores and most of them are not always american made! These products get make over there and then get a cute stamp that says made in america. Like some care manufacturers....

 

[Tony Shoaff]

Headers

I bought a pair of these myself after Jack Cotton told me about them. I know they are a cheaper quality of stainless but they are welded nicely and seem to bolt up properly. I haven't got my motor back in yet to see if they seal properly but I will keep you posted. I would rather have a set of ATR headers but who makes them and why are they so expensive? 4 pairs from China can be bought compared to 1 set in the USA. I have the money but I also have common sense.

 

[V6RACER]

In the end, You get what you pay for..

 

[JayC]

Its amazing to me you guys think you actually know what the profit margins are for these vendor. If you think you can make something of similar quality for less try. I know from personal experience you can't. As far as chinese quality , in my experiences of buying from manufactures over there they run the gambit like us manufacturers. They just have the support of the govt over there.

I know what the vendor profit margin is for the most part. I also know with 100% certainty what the profit margin is on the chinese headers.

 

[Nick Micale]

..............................................................................Just asking but when it comes to the TA style header, was it made/designed before the Burhead headers?..................

Let me clarify about the Burhead headers and a few other items in this thread.

Waylon [aka Burhead] and I had a deal where by I would finance production of "his" Buick headers and I would retain exclusive distribution rights. Long story short, he screwed me out of lots of $$$, so after this "battle", we parted ways.

I took the basic design [that was now mine] to TA where Mike and I, with his production guy, re-designed the headers. If you look closely, the off-shore copies are a cheap imitation of our laser-cut, finely fitted, expertly welded headers. We spent considerable time and $$$ to make sure they flow as good as possible. This part was NOT copied because it is more costly.

Sad part of this story, it will be a cold day in hell before Mike, or myself, [probably other vendors included] will invest our time, $$$ and experience in a product for someone to make a inferior copy.

 

[PsYcHo GN]

In the end, You get what you pay for..

That is very true, but in the end, you don't get what you paid for it... depreciaton. Whether you pay $100 for a cheap part or $800 for an expensive part, in the end, when the car is sold and gone, you probably would've wish you opted for the cheaper part.

 

[bodycount]

Let me clarify about the Burhead headers and a few other items in this thread.

Waylon [aka Burhead] and I had a deal where by I would finance production of "his" Buick headers and I would retain exclusive distribution rights. Long story short, he screwed me out of lots of $$$, so after this "battle", we parted ways.

I took the basic design [that was now mine] to TA where Mike and I, with his production guy, re-designed the headers. If you look closely, the off-shore copies are a cheap imitation of our laser-cut, finely fitted, expertly welded headers. We spent considerable time and $$$ to make sure they flow as good as possible. This part was NOT copied because it is more costly.

Sad part of this story, it will be a cold day in hell before Mike, or myself, [probably other vendors included] will invest our time, $$$ and experience in a product for someone to make a inferior copy.

Thanks for taking the time to clear that up Nick!

 

[Dreamcar86]

Let me clarify about the Burhead headers and a few other items in this thread.

Waylon [aka Burhead] and I had a deal where by I would finance production of "his" Buick headers and I would retain exclusive distribution rights. Long story short, he screwed me out of lots of $$$, so after this "battle", we parted ways.

I took the basic design [that was now mine] to TA where Mike and I, with his production guy, re-designed the headers. If you look closely, the off-shore copies are a cheap imitation of our laser-cut, finely fitted, expertly welded headers. We spent considerable time and $$$ to make sure they flow as good as possible. This part was NOT copied because it is more costly.

Sad part of this story, it will be a cold day in hell before Mike, or myself, [probably other vendors included] will invest our time, $$$ and experience in a product for someone to make a inferior copy.

The points you bring up here are the very thing that everyone is overlooking. First you purchase the highest quality stainless on the market and believe me there are lower grades. My cousin is a mechanical engineer who specializes in metals. Long story short his supplier shipped him a lower grade than what he paid for several years ago and it almost cost him his reputation. Mainly because it would not weld properly. Second you actually took the time to scrutinize your own product and make it the best it could be through proper research and development. Third it is hard to find a "good" welder these days who actually knows how to work with stainless and keep it clean.
The saddest part of the story is that you have done all of the work and now you are be punished because of it.
In the end each man has to make his own decisions about what he wants on his car. Do you decide to go with a PROVEN leader or settle for a copy cat that may be a little better than factory exhaust manifolds or maybe even worse. It all depends on your goals.

 

[SAMBALLS1]

I think the problem is that business design them and then go to a manufacturer that make a profit on the stainless steel, make a profit on the labor and then sell them in batches to these vendors and they then have to make their profit. Problem is, it's going through to many hands... Why not Get with the people in china and have them make your product with the "assistance of the government" and we get a high quality product to specs required to the designer!

Seems like a good answer. If we can't produce it here, have it produced somewhere else!

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

Those headers look pretty restrictive inside?? Are these being installed for a performance gain or to replace cracked stockers? Is the turbo placement straight or crooked like some of the earlier sets?

 

[1BADTT]

In the end, You get what you pay for..

V6RACER, do u use TA headers ?

 

[bodycount]

Man, I sure hear alot of talk of China, but are these (ones originally posted) infact made in China. SSautochrome is in NC and they knock off header designs all the time. Just ask the turboford guys. If someone makes a repop of the stock Buick header is that stealing? There are turbomustang header guys getting there designs copied all the time. Is there a legal recourse? I have yet to see a shorty header (unequal length) for Ford 5.0's that didnt look the same. Hedman, Hooker, Ford Motorsports etc. I am not saying its right by any means. If it is something that can be patent protected than it should be.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

Guys,

I hope I don't get thrashed for this, but I thought it would be nice for you guys who are interesed in these look at pictures of the welding quality and craftman ship of these headers! I am very impressed with the external welding of these headers... I know that some people have posted some pictures of the actual flange and ports, but I don't think I saw any pictures of the internal parts of the pipes..... (Where the pipes get welded to the main pipe connected to 3 bolt flange for turbo. Thought you guys might like these photos. I am not to happy with the size of the ports!


Thanks,
Sam
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb191/SAMBALLS1/100_2654.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb191/SAMBALLS1/100_2655.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb191/SAMBALLS1/100_2653.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb191/SAMBALLS1/100_2652.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb191/SAMBALLS1/100_2651.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb191/SAMBALLS1/100_2650.jpg

If you look at the last 2 pictures... Sorry they are not very clear.... The beads you see in the interior is the actual size of the pipe as it's welded to the main pipe..... Look at how small the holes are in relation to the actual size of the pipe. Seems more like a restriction on the passenger side header!

I have a set as well. Mine have no restrictions like that. I ran out and double checked everything when I saw those pics (the last two). I'd bet the seller would exchange that header for you if you contacted him.

As far as 'Burhead' goes I've spoken with Waylon and I'll just say that there is always two sides to every story.

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

Are these Chinese headers EPA legal & C.A.R.B certified?

 

[Nick Micale]

That is very true, but in the end, you don't get what you paid for it... depreciaton. Whether you pay $100 for a cheap part or $800 for an expensive part, in the end, when the car is sold and gone, you probably would've wish you opted for the cheaper part.

The problem with that statement is the when the cheaper part fails, it can cause way more expensive damage than the difference in price.

 

[SAMBALLS1]

The problem with that statement is the when the cheaper part fails, it can cause way more expensive damage than the difference in price.

I agree with you there if you use cheap internals, but if these headers fail ie. . . . stress crack.... I doubt I would blow my engine. I would probably just have a major exhaust leak!!!! So I don't agree with your statement!