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****first 109 build...any advice?********

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TRYMYSIX

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Joined
Jun 30, 2011
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459
Ok experts, I will shortly start on my 109 build. It will have 4340 steel stock stroke crank, Oliver 6.00"" rods, Probe 3.830 forged pistons, roller cam, heavily ported 8445 stock heads with 1.77"Intake/1.55"exhaust, T&D 1.65 roller rockers.

Is there any advice for tips and tricks I can do to the block to improve oiling or just general tips at all? (without giving up any or your secrets of course)

Any specs I need to tell my machine shop to make sure they get to?

Specs for the crankshaft endplay? You know just general stuff......

I've built a handful of Ford small blocks, but I know the tolerances on a turbo motor are a lot tighter..

I really appreciate and advice!
 
TRYMYSIX said:
Any specs I need to tell my machine shop to make sure they get to?

Specs for the crankshaft endplay? You know just general stuff......
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why should you have to TELL your machine shop on how to build a motor ??:confused: Now if ya do tell them how to do their job will they warranty it even thought you TOLD them what to do ??
 
Grumpy said:
why should you have to TELL your machine shop on how to build a motor ??:confused: Now if ya do tell them how to do their job will they warranty it even thought you TOLD them what to do ??
Click to expand...

On the Miss Gulf Coast we have one machine shop:eek: I haven't talked with them yet to find out if they have done machine work on a 109 block, but I soon will. I mean if it is common practice to have a certain tolerance and the machine shop doesn't know that common machined spec, I would like to be able to tell them that it is common for that particuler surface to be within this spec. I know they do tons of engines here on the coast, but I an unaware if any of my fellow Buick guys around here have ever used their services.
 
Found tons of reading by Jack Merkel...Time to get busy I guess:cool: He ain't afraid to share no info:biggrin:
 
Steel caps and girdle. I have seen oiling systems with lines running to rear of engine and I dont know why:biggrin:. get a ta timing cover for sure. Most of those cranks require a differant balancer and flywheel.
 
My advice..... Strap it in a crate and ship it to one of reputable builders we have. There is DLS, RPE, Nick Micale and a few others. The little bit of freight you pay now is nothing compared to the grief you will have when the engine has to come back apart because the new shop Fd it up. Been there, done that.
 
It sounds like this is well within your ability. Just because a machinist doesnt know turbo buicks doesn't mean he can't machine. As far as I am concerned if you are building an engine you should be telling the machinist exactly what you want and you should measure to verify regardless of who he is imho. If u are letting the machinist determine clearances then you aren't really "building" an engine in my opinion. This isn't rocket science either, all the info you need is online.
My suggestion is to do a search on each topic you have a question about. Measure everything (have mics and a dial bore?). There is a good book I foun that helped me a lot called "engine blueprinting" with spec sheet you photocopy and fill out with all of your measurements. Forgive me if this is basic stuff for you.
My final piece of advice is cometics and copper coat on each layer Some may disagree but the felpros were total crap for me
 
jpwalt1987 said:
my advice..... Strap it in a crate and ship it to one of reputable builders we have. There is dls, rpe, nick micale and a few others. The little bit of freight you pay now is nothing compared to the grief you will have when the engine has to come back apart because the new shop fd it up. Been there, done that.
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x2
 
jpwalt1987 said:
My advice..... Strap it in a crate and ship it to one of reputable builders we have. There is DLS, RPE, Nick Micale and a few others. The little bit of freight you pay now is nothing compared to the grief you will have when the engine has to come back apart because the new shop Fd it up. Been there, done that.
Click to expand...

I appericate your input and it is duely noted. But if I have all the tools, building knowledge and the drive to want to learn this "109" build process, why should I pay someone else to do the work. The Outstanding builders you mentioned above, well...I'm sure they had to learn from somewhere or someone, chances are they learned by trial and error. As I am willing to accept a greater expense and extended downtime just so I can learn this process.
 
Pablo said:
Just because a machinist doesnt know turbo buicks doesn't mean he can't machine. As far as I am concerned if you are building an engine you should be telling the machinist exactly what you want and you should measure to verify regardless of who he is imho. If u are letting the machinist determine clearances then you aren't really "building" an engine in my opinion. This isn't rocket science either, all the info you need is online.
My suggestion is to do a search on each topic you have a question about. Measure everything (have mics and a dial bore?). There is a good book I foun that helped me a lot called "engine blueprinting" with spec sheet you photocopy and fill out with all of your measurements. Forgive me if this is basic stuff for you.
My final piece of advice is cometics and copper coat on each layer Some may disagree but the felpros were total crap for me
Click to expand...

I have mics, bore dial, cam degree kit, dial indicator, ring grinder so on and so forth...It isn't rocket science. just another motor that has to be set up with tighter tolerances than most engines. Once thos tolerances are given, it's not hard to achieve them. Have been reading articles by Jack Merkel.....can't argue with that guy.. Thanks for the support though!
 
I have been searching/reading this site for along time but not as a member. I lived in Gulfport a few years back and I would recommend calling Jackson Clyinder Heads and talk to Jeff. He would be the only one in that area that I would feel confindent about doing your work. I went down the wrong motor builder road in your area.
Bob
 
X2.......Do NOT drill the oil feed hole larger as Merkel suggests. I see no benefit from that at all. The only thing it will do is weaken an already weak block. Do radius the oil passage corners if you want to do anything out of the normal machine work and tap the front gallery plug holes for the TA shallow plugs. Debur all the main caps and debur and thread chase all the bolt holes, too. Other than that, the factory 109 block is a nice piece. I spend a fair amount of time radiusing all the corners in the oil passages in the block and timing cover. Do NOT use a high volume oil pump, either. The stock pump is capable of oiling even a 750hp engine. All the power is in head porting (or TA aluminum heads) and a good roller cam. Steel main caps in the center, or I prefere a girdle with modded stock caps. There....I just let out all my secrets.
 
turbofabricator said:
X2.......Do NOT drill the oil feed hole larger as Merkel suggests. I see no benefit from that at all. The only thing it will do is weaken an already weak block. Do radius the oil passage corners if you want to do anything out of the normal machine work and tap the front gallery plug holes for the TA shallow plugs. Debur all the main caps and debur and thread chase all the bolt holes, too. Other than that, the factory 109 block is a nice piece. I spend a fair amount of time radiusing all the corners in the oil passages in the block and timing cover. Do NOT use a high volume oil pump, either. The stock pump is capable of oiling even a 750hp engine. All the power is in head porting (or TA aluminum heads) and a good roller cam. Steel main caps in the center, or I prefere a girdle with modded stock caps. There....I just let out all my secrets.
Click to expand...

Now that's what I'm talking about. We as members on this board should be willing to help out newer members or new GN owners to learn these cars and be able to accomplish things on your own. I am absolutely thrilled that you are willing to share your expertise Ken. I will make sure to do all the above suggestions. i too would agree with not drilling the oil passages', as i see it; as long as you keep your tolerances’ at or under .0002" you should have proper oiling to the mains. i have seen where it is suggested to try to achieve a .00015" tolerance on the mains. now that is tight..lol
 
proptop said:
I have been searching/reading this site for along time but not as a member. I lived in Gulfport a few years back and I would recommend calling Jackson Clyinder Heads and talk to Jeff. He would be the only one in that area that I would feel confindent about doing your work. I went down the wrong motor builder road in your area.
Bob
Click to expand...

Awesome..Thanks..I will do
 
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