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****first 109 build...any advice?********

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TRYMYSIX said:
If I have all the tools, building knowledge and the drive to want to learn this "109" build process, why should I pay someone else to do the work.
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Well said. You'll be able to do this no problem. I find it curious when a so called Car Guy says My motor guy,My tranny guy,or My paint guy. If you have people doing all the work for you,what is it that makes you a car guy? When someone comments on the looks or performance of your motor and you respond with a thank you and you did none of the work,what is it that you are accepting thanks for? Maybe your beautiful signature on the check that payed for the work? Hey dude,you have a beautiful signature. Thank you would be an appropriate response to that statement.
 
.0015-.002 NOT .00015-.0002 Maybe just a simple typo but people actually read this stuff then go out & do it.:rolleyes:

Also most machine shops have books that list all factory specs, so as long as they check you should be ok.
 
Ttype6 said:
Well said. You'll be able to do this no problem. I find it curious when a so called Car Guy says My motor guy,My tranny guy,or My paint guy. If you have people doing all the work for you,what is it that makes you a car guy? When someone comments on the looks or performance of your motor and you respond with a thank you and you did none of the work,what is it that you are accepting thanks for? Maybe your beautiful signature on the check that payed for the work? Hey dude,you have a beautiful signature. Thank you would be an appropriate response to that statement.
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My sentiments exactly. Reminds me of a quote I saw on here awhile back (forgot the member that posted it) but it was something like "Having someone else build your car is like having someone bang your wife and then you go out and brag about the baby"


Trymysix, sounds like you have this well in hand. I have some more things I thought of that you might have covered already.
Rocker pedestals will need to be clearanced for the rockers, and the stock valve guides need to be cut for higher lift (can't remember where they hit stock).
Look up earl brown front cover mods and posts by turbo fabricator on setting up the pump gears.
As far as girdle or caps, I think the girdle makes a lot more sense to me. I used a cat girdle and getting it set up on the block correctly wasn't too bad. Doing the caps seems like an easy way to introduce a bunch of issues if the machining isn't right. It also just doesn't seem as strong from a structural standpoint.
Another tip which isn't really part of the engine build but will help is to clearance the header flanges around the head stud nuts so that you can fit a socket on them when the engine is together. This way you can re-torque the nuts without having to pull off the headers.

BTW I am by no means an expert, just sharing what I have learned
 
Pablo said:
My sentiments exactly. Reminds me of a quote I saw on here awhile back (forgot the member that posted it) but it was something like "Having someone else build your car is like having someone bang your wife and then you go out and brag about the baby"


Trymysix, sounds like you have this well in hand. I have some more things I thought of that you might have covered already.
Rocker pedestals will need to be clearanced for the rockers, and the stock valve guides need to be cut for higher lift (can't remember where they hit stock).
Look up earl brown front cover mods and posts by turbo fabricator on setting up the pump gears.
As far as girdle or caps, I think the girdle makes a lot more sense to me. I used a cat girdle and getting it set up on the block correctly wasn't too bad. Doing the caps seems like an easy way to introduce a bunch of issues if the machining isn't right. It also just doesn't seem as strong from a structural standpoint.
Another tip which isn't really part of the engine build but will help is to clearance the header flanges around the head stud nuts so that you can fit a socket on them when the engine is together. This way you can re-torque the nuts without having to pull off the headers.

BTW I am by no means an expert, just sharing what I have learned
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Hey thanks for that info..I will look that stuff up. I plan on sharing my experience as I build this thing....Finding lots of good info out there on the web.

johnplogii said:
.0015-.002 NOT .00015-.0002 Maybe just a simple typo but people actually read this stuff then go out & do it.:rolleyes:

Also most machine shops have books that list all factory specs, so as long as they check you should be ok.
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Yep...typo...had fat finger syndrome I guess...Good catch! Thanks

pmoore4321 said:
Some interesting ideas concerning the valve train and head installation. Where is part IV?
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Still looking for it:D

Ttype6 said:
Well said. You'll be able to do this no problem. I find it curious when a so called Car Guy says My motor guy,My tranny guy,or My paint guy. If you have people doing all the work for you,what is it that makes you a car guy? When someone comments on the looks or performance of your motor and you respond with a thank you and you did none of the work,what is it that you are accepting thanks for? Maybe your beautiful signature on the check that payed for the work? Hey dude,you have a beautiful signature. Thank you would be an appropriate response to that statement.
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Now THAT my friend is WELL SAID! Couldn't agree more:biggrin:
 
Good job bro, Get it all together and you'll have mine to go through, when the time comes.
 
BTW I do have the 1987 buick shop manual, that has all the factory specs and so on.
 
Steer clear of Mc "Murder"turys or Big 2 there in town. A ton of SBF, LS and BBC guys I know there in town have been screwed by Mc. Best bet is to send off and get the stuff done right. You are building a engine or at least wanting to. But, no mention of a goal...... what is your ET goal?

Heads up on timing covers....Im building a new engine myself and just purchased a brand new GM timing cover and if I had to do it over again I would get a TA cover. The brand new GM one didnt have as tight of a gear face to wall clearance as it should. The TA is a much tighter/better cover...yes better than GM!!

Get a TA cover that is already done or do it your self. Drill the feed in the cover to 1/2'" and radius the 90 where it turns and leaves the cover. Set up the pump end clearance to .002 i also do some porting oin the filter adpater and gasket match everything. Its very time consuming but worth it IMO. Only place to touch on the block is the 90 degree turn as mentioned and the plugs in the oil galleys convert to screw in (use the ones from TA as they are shallow).

You going to the nats with scott?
 
turbo nasty said:
Steer clear of Mc "Murder"turys or Big 2 there in town. A ton of SBF, LS and BBC guys I know there in town have been screwed by Mc. Best bet is to send off and get the stuff done right. You are building a engine or at least wanting to. But, no mention of a goal...... what is your ET goal?

Heads up on timing covers....Im building a new engine myself and just purchased a brand new GM timing cover and if I had to do it over again I would get a TA cover. The brand new GM one didnt have as tight of a gear face to wall clearance as it should. The TA is a much tighter/better cover...yes better than GM!!

Get a TA cover that is already done or do it your self. Drill the feed in the cover to 1/2'" and radius the 90 where it turns and leaves the cover. Set up the pump end clearance to .002 i also do some porting oin the filter adpater and gasket match everything. Its very time consuming but worth it IMO. Only place to touch on the block is the 90 degree turn as mentioned and the plugs in the oil galleys convert to screw in (use the ones from TA as they are shallow).

You going to the nats with scott?
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Note taken on Big 2....Already knew about crooked ass McMutry....He lost a friend on mines motor once:eek:

Planning on the TA timing cover for sure.

Myself, Bob & David are going to the Nats.......Scott........well........ still hasn't made up his mind......Call em tell him he needs to go with us;)

My goal Jason; for my own motor will be a daily driven 10sec GN, that I can drive anywhere. Would like to see 10.70-11.00 without really pushing her to hard. But then when I need to turn it up a little, I would like to see 10.30-10.50.
 
TRYMYSIX said:
Note taken on Big 2....Already knew about crooked ass McMutry....He lost a friend on mines motor once:eek:

Planning on the TA timing cover for sure.

Myself, Bob & David are going to the Nats.......Scott........well........ still hasn't made up his mind......Call em tell him he needs to go with us;)

My goal Jason; for my own motor will be a daily driven 10sec GN, that I can drive anywhere. Would like to see 10.70-11.00 without really pushing her to hard. But then when I need to turn it up a little, I would like to see 10.30-10.50.
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Spoke with Scott today and he said he was going to call you about BG. All forged with billet caps is the ticket for you goal IMO.
 
turbo nasty said:
Spoke with Scott today and he said he was going to call you about BG. All forged with billet caps is the ticket for you goal IMO.
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Think caps will suit my needs rather than a girdle?

What I have planned: Probe pistons, Oliver H-beam rods, steel caps and the 4340 Steel crank from Probe Industries. Using the heads I have ported/polished with 1.77/1.55 SS valves double springs. Roller cam kit 212/212. Stock ported lower intake, 70mm doghouse & 70mm TB. 60lb injectors. Top it off with a PT 6765 turbo. Backed up by a tranny built by yours truly. I think that will get me in the ball park when Scott tunes it as Bob supervises...LOL

You going to BG?
 
Oh yeah, im going to BG see ya there.

You might want to rethink the tubo its gonna be laggy on the street with a true Daily driver..... big slow response turbos ae a fail IMO on a dd. Even with a BB the stall will need to be a non L/U 3200 plus to get proper boost response and work well with the cam you are shooting for. Once you each 2800 you need to swap over to a non lock up.
 
turbo nasty said:
Oh yeah, im going to BG see ya there.

You might want to rethink the tubo its gonna be laggy on the street with a true Daily driver..... big slow response turbos ae a fail IMO on a dd. Even with a BB the stall will need to be a non L/U 3200 plus to get proper boost response and work well with the cam you are shooting for. Once you each 2800 you need to swap over to a non lock up.
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Any suggestions? David runs the 6262 and spools crazy fast.....
 
Davids tubo does NOT spool fast IMO out the hole. Get him to power brake the car with and watch the boost gauge. Once rolling it spools decent...IMO get a BB in any 60 series for good boost response. I have driven his car and its laggy out the hole. Ride in Barts car with the 49 ...No offense to David just an example.

Many things are a mis match combo issue on SOOOOO many TR's out there.
To loose of a Lock up convetor thats just slipping on the big end and the owners have no clue that it is.
Turbo too big for goal intended
Over cammed for goal.


Looking at it fom a DD for starters the 1.65 Roller Rockers are not going to give you long valve spring life. You are considering irons and a 212/212 cam about the max you want for the steet and Irons. Heads mentioned because they will only flow so much due to port size restrictions.

Turbo size..... if you are getting a 60 series then a BB is a must! I think the 6262BB with a .63 Turbine housing will meet your goal with a L/U 2600-2700 ish convertor PTC.

10.30 when you turn it up is concening me in order for the car to be a DD with good stret manners. I think you are getting into give up something for steet manners. What do you consider good street manners for a dd. Everyone has a different opinion on that.
Mine is the car can make a 3 plus hour trip and make boost crossing a 4 lane intersection from a dead stop and not need to mess with valve springs and such every 1-2 years.
Low 11's high tens is about it for that.
A combo that will run 11.0 aint gonna run 10.30's by turning up a little. It takes alot to shave off that many tenths in the tens.

How is your suspension? I would sink some money in rear Sway bar and control arms and get the car launching good before messing with the engine.

Take your time and really think the combo over.
 
turbo nasty said:
To loose of a Lock up convetor thats just slipping on the big end and the owners have no clue that it is.

.
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Is this a common problem? Where is the line between to loose for lock up? I just built my trans and stayed with lock up. The converter I have, which I also built, is a 3200-3400 stall lock up. Where is the issue going to be and whay does the lock up become a problem?
 
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