forward clutch; no forward motion in drive

[outatime86]

Finally got my motor running after 9 months of work, it sat for 16 years before that. I'm running Fast B2B and got it tuned. When I went into Drive....nothing. Pressure checked out good in each gear P, R, N, D4, D3, D2, D1 according to ATSG manual for 200r4. HAVE Park, Reverse, and Neutral . Telling me its not the converter (Art Carr 16930 3600 Non Lockup). Upon tear down I found this, I've never seen anything like it, cracked in 13 places...any thoughts? Bushing also pushed out in the hub, must have been the piston, pointing to it with the screw driver.

 

[TexasT]

That is one of the piston seals you are pointing at with the screw driver. Pretty much won't apply the piston with it leaking there. As far as the broken apply ring, I'd pull the piston out replace those seals and a new apply ring and reassemble. Do the clutches and steels look ok? Those could need replaced if damaged.

 

[outatime86]

That is one of the piston seals you are pointing at with the screw driver. Pretty much won't apply the piston with it leaking there. As far as the broken apply ring, I'd pull the piston out replace those seals and a new apply ring and reassemble. Do the clutches and steels look ok? Those could need replaced if damaged.

Got it, thanks texas! Yea goin shopping for a new piston, new pressure plate and apply ring, just gonna replace all clutches and steel plates. I counted 5 forward, 9 direct and 3 overdrive. Will upgrade to a billet servo and wind band, get a new seal kit n bushing kit as well.

Any recommendations for a place to get these from?

 

[TexasT]

If you are wanting good support after the sale, David Husek is an excellent source. www.turbobuickperformamce.com

 

[outatime86]

I'll check it out thanks Texas! I know its better to call David then to try and email him.

 

[turbo6randy]

Got it, thanks texas! Yea goin shopping for a new piston, new pressure plate and apply ring, just gonna replace all clutches and steel plates. I counted 5 forward, 9 direct and 3 overdrive. Will upgrade to a billet servo and wind band, get a new seal kit n bushing kit as well.

Any recommendations for a place to get these from?

I would talk to Dave before ordering parts. Someone put an extra friction in the forward if it has 5. This may have contributed to the problem. 9 in the direct drum sounds good but has proven not to work well. Thin steels don't absorb the heat well. Also I would not use a wide band unless your drum is really nice.

 

[outatime86]

Thanks turbo6! Yea I have reached out to wittrans who has my parts in stock. A fellow there named Jason is apart of the boost crew who race and drive frequently. I believe I'm in good hands. Will definitely ask about the number of clutches in forward and drive drums before buying.

The last person to work on my trans (15 + years ago) was Don Wang aka the Wizard aka DRW. A legend in the game here in socal.

I talked to art carr and he said he has had nothing but trouble with the wide bands and a narrow band with carbon can easily goto 1000hp. I'm sticking to narrow band.

 

[TexasT]

Don used to post here. He answered a lot of questions for me and others. I believe he went by alkyv6.

 

[outatime86]

I would talk to Dave before ordering parts. Someone put an extra friction in the forward if it has 5. This may have contributed to the problem. 9 in the direct drum sounds good but has proven not to work well. Thin steels don't absorb the heat well. Also I would not use a wide band unless your drum is really nice.

Thank you for the reply. Is there any info or source of info I can read about regarding the 5 forward and 9 direct clutches?

I went with a narrow band carbon, after talking with Art Carr he said he had nothing but problems with the wide band and carbon narrows are good upto 1000hp!

Thanks for the input and replies

 

[outatime86]

Don used to post here. He answered a lot of questions for me and others. I believe he went by alkyv6.

I miss Don, during the BGNRA days he would host tech sessions at DRW.

Those who remember, he had a crazy GN build as well. When I had trans issues he was great at taking the time to explain as well as repair.

I tried finding him on here but last postings were 2016, and DRW is no longer from what I found.

The Wizard is missed

 

[turbo6randy]

Don's posts were interesting and his car was too. I can practically hear him explaining the apply area of the extra clutches, which makes sense. Unfortunately most of us that tried it found burnt frictions and steels and went back to stock friction counts. I am only a hobby builder not a pro but do a lot of research on them.
As far as information. You could do a search. Bison has posted good information on frictions here. I like to listen to people like him that are building them for fast cars.
Did Art Carr give you any thoughts on friction counts?

 

[outatime86]

Don's posts were interesting and his car was too. I can practically hear him explaining the apply area of the extra clutches, which makes sense. Unfortunately most of us that tried it found burnt frictions and steels and went back to stock friction counts. I am only a hobby builder not a pro but do a lot of research on them.
As far as information. You could do a search. Bison has posted good information on frictions here. I like to listen to people like him that are building them for fast cars.
Did Art Carr give you any thoughts on friction counts?

Thanks for the info! I'll be doing a search for some of that information. I wasn't able to discuss the friction counts. My buddy brought his reference book when we went to reassemble, GM 2004R TECHNICAL MANUAL

I received the parts VERY quickly from Whatever It Takes Trans, Russel and Jason (boosted crew) were extremely helpful and knowledgeable about the 200r4's!

Small hiccup, my buddy brought an aluminum forward drum to use as an upgrade but the washer that fits onto the steel drum shaft did not fit the aluminum drum shaft. So rather then machining out the aluminum drum to fit the washer we decided to reuse the steel drum. Hiccup being I bent my apply ring for the forward drum and am NOT comfortable reusing it. So I am on the hunt literally just an apply ring! Anyone who has a reference were to get one local in southern cali that would be awesome. Both the steel drum and center support were aftermarket parts from the Wizard, Don Wang. If I remember correctly bought around early 2000's! Check out the markings, and the weld job on the forward drum shaft.

 

[outatime86]

Well I got lucky today. Went to go see art carr in huntington beach, he had an apply ring and a wave plate I needed for the forward drum.

 

[TexasT]

Should have gotten two of those wavey units to help with the clunk as it goes into gear.