Frustrated with my FI swap...may be going carb/turbo

[Donniejr81]

I swapped a 85GN HA drivetrain in my 85 Regal and wish I could say all is well. I just cant get it to run right. Its a mix of fuel and electrical probs. (too much fuel then not enough, fires great then not at all, boosts to 14 then nada) If I cant get it straightened out soon, I'm going to yank the FI and go the carbed/turbo route. Whats the best way to go? Go with a factory draw thru turbo or use a IC turbo and go blow through? I like the draw thru setup because of the proven dependability but I also like the IC'd blow thru because its different. Hmmm...ready for some input...lets take a vote.

 

[mat231v6]

I swapped a 85GN HA drivetrain in my 85 Regal and wish I could say all is well. I just cant get it to run right. Its a mix of fuel and electrical probs. (too much fuel then not enough, fires great then not at all, boosts to 14 then nada) If I cant get it straightened out soon, I'm going to yank the FI and go the carbed/turbo route. Whats the best way to go? Go with a factory draw thru turbo or use a IC turbo and go blow through? I like the draw thru setup because of the proven dependability but I also like the IC'd blow thru because its different. Hmmm...ready for some input...lets take a vote.

the factory draw thru would be the cheapes route to go. as i always say at a car show its great, because most people have not seen it. blow thru is not very cheap to do, but yes it does look cool. what state do you live in?

 

[TurboBob]

Fix the injection. You will be miles ahead.

Convert it to 87 electronics (easy, many have done it) and start diagnosing it. There is a ton of expertise in this board that will help you get it running right.

Bob

 

[WarWagon]

What's your Wallet say man?
Well, you already have the HA setup and mostly working, like you suggested find the bugs in the EFI and run it HA for sure.
Goals or purpuse for the Regal?

 

[Donniejr81]

I live in Sonora, KY about an hour south of Louisville...waaay out in the boonies

 

[charlief1]

I agree with the changing of the puter. The 86-87 is a much better control system and you'll be miles ahead. Look in the sticky in the HA section to tell you what you need.

As far as going with a C/T system you'll need to drop the tank to change to a normal pick up, add a fuel pump, a new down pipe, up pipe, and of course all the intake system and controls.

If you go blow through then you need the passenger side header and a 4 barrel intake to use it, and a distributor. Then a BTM to keep the detonation away.

 

[Donniejr81]

Does it sound like an incompatibility issue with my ECM and engine setup?

My car began life as a carb V-6...reincarnated as SFI/turbo...may very possibly revert back to carb just with a turbo this time. Its just frustrating me.

My fuel pressure is good my injectors just go ballistic firing and then cease, same goes for the ingnition

 

[UncleDave]

Loose balancer perhaps? That can cause some erratic behavior. Don't know if you have one, but it would be good to throw a scan tool on it. Are the SFI 'puter and chip stock?

 

[Donniejr81]

The computer, chip, and SFI are all stock 85GN pieces except for an inline fuel pump instead of in-tank and Im running a stock TTA fuel pressure regulator. I had actually thought the computer or PROM may be fried because I never got my issue resolved of not having the keyed voltage from the ECM to close the fuel pump relay. I had to run a keyed 12V wire from the fuse panel to the relay for my FP to work.

I dont have a scantool...do they make those for the HA cars?

 

[charlief1]

Yes they make a scan tool for the HA and earlier cars. There's an OTC scanner in the for sale section.

 

[jdpolzin]

The computer, chip, and SFI are all stock 85GN pieces except for an inline fuel pump instead of in-tank and Im running a stock TTA fuel pressure regulator. I had actually thought the computer or PROM may be fried because I never got my issue resolved of not having the keyed voltage from the ECM to close the fuel pump relay. I had to run a keyed 12V wire from the fuse panel to the relay for my FP to work.

I dont have a scantool...do they make those for the HA cars?

Lets get back to the basics when it comes to your tune and try to find your problem. Have you tried another cam sensor? If not, try it. You say you are running a TTA regulator, which is non adjustable. I dont know what pump your running but that stock regulator is set up for a stock pressure pump. I'm better your base FP is way high. What is the base FP at? What under dash harness are you using? Stock Hot Air?

As far as boost and no boost issue, we've had the same problems and it was always the vacuum lines being the problem, mainly the line going to the MAP sensor. I dont think the hot air cars will boost if the MAP sees no boost or vacuum. I could be wrong on that one but it has come up in conversations based on no boost issues.

 

[usetaboost]

i wouldnt spend much on a scantool at the moment because you will eventually upgrade the ecm and chip and all that good stuff. do the winaldl setup for now just so you can see whats going on. its only 28 shipped for a cable and the program is free. the only thing u will need is an old laptop and a usb adaptor if you dont have a serial port.

WinALDL - 160 baud ALDL reader

earl brown was selling cables. dont know if he still does. You can make your own. I was gonna make my own but my patience has worn thin the last few years on DIY projects. Sometimes its easier just to BUY:biggrin:

 

[WarWagon]

Thanks for the Link and Info USETABOOST I can use that on my truck.

 

[mat231v6]

i wouldnt spend much on a scantool at the moment because you will eventually upgrade the ecm and chip and all that good stuff. do the winaldl setup for now just so you can see whats going on. its only 28 shipped for a cable and the program is free. the only thing u will need is an old laptop and a usb adaptor if you dont have a serial port.

WinALDL - 160 baud ALDL reader

earl brown was selling cables. dont know if he still does. You can make your own. I was gonna make my own but my patience has worn thin the last few years on DIY projects. Sometimes its easier just to BUY:biggrin:

thank you for the link

 

[Donniejr81]

The under dash harness I am using is supposed to be a stock '85 HA harness but I have my doubts. I say that because the brake light switch connector on the harness will not fit the switches used in the 84-85 cars, I had to get a brake light switch for an 86 TR.

As for my fuel pressure I think it was right around 45 at the rail is that OK or too high?

I took the advice about the cam sensor and removed it and checked it with 12V and a digital voltmeter and it ran out perfect. The shaft is also remarkably smooth and free moving.

I went ahead and started replacing EVERY vacuum line and cleaning EVERY electrical connection I could find. I really want this thing to run...properly.

 

[usetaboost]

save yourself some hassle and get an 87 ecm before you order a chip. THat way when you do get it running right you can get a turbotweak chip that is adjustable and can have fast update for the scanmaster which you will eventually want. Winaldl can get the job done but you will eventually get sick of having a laptop in the car all the time and the slow ass 1.5 per second update speed. TAKE YOUR TIME WITH WINALDL. IT'S SLOOOOOOW. Don't need to hear about anyone having to change headgaskets.

 

[charlief1]

I agree with you Jesse, Up date to the better system and it willl help out quite a bit, I'm working with stoneage stuff and it is much easier if you have better equipment to start with.

 

[jdpolzin]

The under dash harness I am using is supposed to be a stock '85 HA harness but I have my doubts. I say that because the brake light switch connector on the harness will not fit the switches used in the 84-85 cars, I had to get a brake light switch for an 86 TR.

As for my fuel pressure I think it was right around 45 at the rail is that OK or too high?

I took the advice about the cam sensor and removed it and checked it with 12V and a digital voltmeter and it ran out perfect. The shaft is also remarkably smooth and free moving.

I went ahead and started replacing EVERY vacuum line and cleaning EVERY electrical connection I could find. I really want this thing to run...properly.

Ok, one thing about the cam sensor is that its shaft mounted. It may read out correctly with a meter but once it sees RPM, if it has any play side to side, it can throw the car off and make it stumble. We searched for this problem for literally a year on a car and just kept re-setting the cam sensor. Well it ended up being the cam sensor. Typically, the car will stumble at lower RPMs and run fine at higher RPMs. The shaft has more play side to side at lower RPM, which can throw the reading off. Once the motor raised RPMs, the shaft straightens out.

Another simple thing to check is just simply the plugs. What are they gapped to?

Also, how are you IAC (idle air control) readings? We need to know that the IAC motor and valve are adjusting properly.

 

[usetaboost]

Another simple thing to check is just simply the plugs. What are they gapped to?

Also, how are you IAC (idle air control) readings? We need to know that the IAC motor and valve are adjusting properly.

I'll second that. BLM numbers and IAC counts need to be looked at before anything. Jeremy and Keith practically had to beat me in the head before I learned that you HAVE to have a scan tool to begin to diagnose these cars. My car was a prime example of things being way out of wack. If either two things are messed up the car won't run worth a crap. Mine would barely idle. I fixed these two issues and it was a totally different car.

Here's one for you Mr. Polzin, what causes a motor to have 1 grey spark plug?

 

[jdpolzin]

I'll second that. BLM numbers and IAC counts need to be looked at before anything. Jeremy and Keith practically had to beat me in the head before I learned that you HAVE to have a scan tool to begin to diagnose these cars. My car was a prime example of things being way out of wack. If either two things are messed up the car won't run worth a crap. Mine would barely idle. I fixed these two issues and it was a totally different car.

Here's one for you Mr. Polzin, what causes a motor to have 1 grey spark plug?

Either you have a bad injector, the injector harness is bad, or something else is causing the injector to not fire.

You have a bad intake valve, which is causing the cylinder to get more air than it should.

Or you have a cam/lifter issue causing the intake valve to stick open.

Cylinders running lean.