Fuel pressure problem that i cant make heads or tails of

[Toby_Goodmk]

chewing popcorn waiting on the findings.... if any, inside the regulator.

 

[turbo89]

I have run strong in tank pumps and even when you run higher intial fp say 50psi it still raises 1to1 with boost ,It just makes the curve richer.there have been cases where bigger return lines are needed on the higher flowing pumps.

And Many of these cases had a common element .. Accufab FPR .. some work .. some don't seems like there was a run that fall in the 4-5 year range that were problematic ...

The new ones just need to be opened and cleaned ..

Here is something else to think about .. depending on what injectors you have .. it may be beneficial to run higher than stock pressures .. I have had really good results with the Siemens 80's doing this ..

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

you said the magic words .. a little know how

It's just easier to put twin 450L pumps , fed by welder cables , dual -12 feeds, to 3/4" rails, -8 twin returns, to feed 300 lb Moran Atomizers .. All on a 11 second car at best

common sense isn't so common just more shit for people to hang themselves with

Your sarcasm is taken quite lightly by myself but if you look into what the OP is attempting to achieve and the pieces of the fuel system (currently) he is using, it wont work.



These are clues that the OP is not staying near a stock style system.

Using 120lb injectors
Running E85
Fast system
Flex Fuel Sensor

My points, which your sarcasm probably points to, gives the OP real world trial and error and opinions of people much smarter than myself that have proved themselves. I dont do things or spend money or hang parts on a car like a monkey with no common sense. In my opinion, the direction he is heading to is going to need good power, and fuel delivery. Why mess around with rubber fuel lines on an E85 system? Why use a 255 on an E85 system?

You can spend all the time in the world figuring out restriction issues whether it be a regulator, or lines, hanger, etc...but the end result is going to be an inferior E85 system even if a regulator is the issue with the current setup, correct??

 

[ttribejr]

Sensors are cheap, and when you upgrade lines, the sensor fitting comes with the Racetronix kit. Buy a ceramic sensor off ebay for $20, and the caspers harness connection for another $60, and you can log fuel. It is very helpful to see on a graph what your fuel and IDC are doing together with other params to stave off starvation or other issues.

Hey Toby do you mind posting a link to the sensor and harness? I was looking on ebay but not positive what you bought. I just know of the plug and play $300 fast setup for oil and fuel.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

Here is the harness.

http://www.casperselectronics.com/c...roduct/product&product_id=464&search=fuel/oil

Here is a link to the sensors that I use in my setup. I use the ceramic type. They report within .5lb of a mechanical gauge. I am almost certain the fuel and oil use a 5v reading but cannot remember. Consult your fast index to make sure

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pressure-tr...ash=item3cd458eea8:g:wEgAAOSw2XFUgI6K&vxp=mtr

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

instructions as well. They dont show up for the harness I posted a link on, but they show for the entire kit which has the sensors included for $345.00

http://www.installationinstructions.com/109038.pdf

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

Here is a post I posted earlier this year when I went through much demise (not all fuel related) but covers some of my trials with the current system and not logging fuel, etc. On page 4 there are pics of the AZGN sender with a 430. Attached are pictures of my current setup with dual DW301s which I need to run because of my build. It's pretty opened, so my IDC showed where the 430 was letting the 120s gasp for fuel. You can easily see the electrical connection differences when comparing models. You can easily see the fuel connection differences as well

http://www.turbobuick.com/threads/running-lean-on-entire-pass-side-bank-wtf.438292/page-5

 

[ttribejr]

chewing popcorn waiting on the findings.... if any, inside the regulator.

opened the regular last night. it was fine. No metal shavings.

The fix for my problem is 100% the return line. After the regular checked out last night I cracked open the return line near the steering gear box. Jesus, those fittings are necked down. I bet its 1/8" inside there. I rigged up a hose to let the return line flow into a buck and verified. I had full control of the regular all the way down to around 30psi fuel pressure.

So next round of upgrades will be a return line upgrade and fuel logging kit.

 

[zapp240]

since you actually have that Saginaw fitting broke apart near the steering box, there are people who have tried to drill out that restrictive fitting, some have had success some haven't, but if you have it opened you might go for it. I couldn't get mine broke open, even with a variety of line wrenches so I didn't want to bugger it up and left it alone. if you hit the search button, there are a few threads describing what size drill bits to use.

 

[Mr.Spool]

And Many of these cases had a common element .. Accufab FPR .. some work .. some don't seems like there was a run that fall in the 4-5 year range that were problematic ...

The new ones just need to be opened and cleaned ..

Here is something else to think about .. depending on what injectors you have .. it may be beneficial to run higher than stock pressures .. I have had really good results with the Siemens 80's doing this ..

Yes in this particular case car needed a lot of fuel with a high base pressure in the 50s.tried 3different regulators but had to put in a bigger return.not that it didn't work the owner was particular about the rich spot and the turbo was a little on the lazy side with a bigger than need ex wheel and housing.we had 400lph at 50psi and couldn't move enough air soon enough.

 

[ttribejr]

since you actually have that Saginaw fitting broke apart near the steering box, there are people who have tried to drill out that restrictive fitting, some have had success some haven't, but if you have it opened you might go for it. I couldn't get mine broke open, even with a variety of line wrenches so I didn't want to bugger it up and left it alone. if you hit the search button, there are a few threads describing what size drill bits to use.

Yea, I had seen where some people have done that, but I don't like the idea. I would swap the fuel return over to the vapor/vent 5/16" line before I would do that. And i might just do that tonight after work to get me rolling again. My power goals will call for much more fuel pump than I currently have so I might just go 3/8" (an6) now and never worry about it again. I am going to shop around the internet today and see whats out there. I already ordered the setup to log fuel and oil (thank you Toby for saving me over $200).

My charcoal canister is still hooked up. Anybody know if it still functions on XFI cars? I want to delete EGR too, but I have yet to see a good option (no leaks).

 

[zapp240]

if you have an rjc power plate installed that is not drilled for the egr (as I do) then it is not functional anyways, but have not taken it off as I like the stock Look.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Yea, I had seen where some people have done that, but I don't like the idea. I would swap the fuel return over to the vapor/vent 5/16" line before I would do that. And i might just do that tonight after work to get me rolling again. My power goals will call for much more fuel pump than I currently have so I might just go 3/8" (an6) now and never worry about it again. I am going to shop around the internet today and see whats out there. I already ordered the setup to log fuel and oil (thank you Toby for saving me over $200).

My charcoal canister is still hooked up. Anybody know if it still functions on XFI cars? I want to delete EGR too, but I have yet to see a good option (no leaks).

What are your power goals?the direction your headed?

 

[ttribejr]

It's a street car. I am going for whatever streetable horsepower i can get and still be able to control the car. For my other cars, that has fallen between 400 and 600 rwhp depending on the chassis.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

opened the regular last night. it was fine. No metal shavings.

The fix for my problem is 100% the return line. After the regular checked out last night I cracked open the return line near the steering gear box. Jesus, those fittings are necked down. I bet its 1/8" inside there. I rigged up a hose to let the return line flow into a buck and verified. I had full control of the regular all the way down to around 30psi fuel pressure.

So next round of upgrades will be a return line upgrade and fuel logging kit.

And there we have it.... non sufficient lines. Now just rid those old rubber lines for E85 approved ones and you will be safe until you upgrade your line sets.

 

[Ttype6]

And there we have it.... non sufficient lines.

This hasn't been proven. There hasn't been one person on the planet who has ever even claimed that a stock return line was unable to return enough unused fuel back to the tank at idle after installing a 255 l/hr pump. If there was a case,it would likely be caused by a defect or obstruction. Either way,this problem would be reduced by using E85 which would make the return line even less likely to be the cause.

 

[Ttype6]

there are people who have tried to drill out that restrictive fitting,

There's no need to do this because he just proved that it is able to flow enough volume to get his pressure down to 30 at an idle.

Oops,I forgot that one of the parts that needs to be drilled is at the front of the return line that sticks out of the front of the cross member. His test does show that the Saginaw fitting at the regulator is plenty big.

 

[BEATAV8]

There's no need to do this because he just proved that it is able to flow enough volume to get his pressure down to 30 at an idle.

I think you might have mid-read? OP stated above his lines are damaged / crushed down to 1/8"? (#48)

 

[Ttype6]

opened the regular last night. it was fine. No metal shavings.

The fix for my problem is 100% the return line. After the regular checked out last night I cracked open the return line near the steering gear box. Jesus, those fittings are necked down. I bet its 1/8" inside there. I rigged up a hose to let the return line flow into a buck and verified. I had full control of the regular all the way down to around 30psi fuel pressure.

So next round of upgrades will be a return line upgrade and fuel logging kit.

So,you know that the Saginaw fitting at the regulator is not the restriction.The next possible restriction in the return circuit is the Saginaw fitting in the return line where the rubber portion from the regulator connects to the steel return line. I see in a later post that you are against this but there is no good reason to be. A little bigger helps a lot and is so simple to do. To confirm weather or not this mod is needed,you should remove the flex fuel sensor and re do your first test.

 

[Ttype6]

I think you might have mid-read? OP stated above his lines are damaged / crushed down to 1/8"? (#48)

He said neither crush nor damage. He was commenting on the ID of the Saginaw fitting at the front of the return line.