general swap questions

[XopherTony]

since most on this forum have allready done this swap i was wondering if i could get a few questions answered.

overview:i am swapping a turbo3.8 onto my 2.8L v6 equiped 1986 firebird.

questions:

1:where is a good place to get a rebuilt/built up 3.8?

2:where would i go about getting a downpipe for the TTA (since this is baisicaly the same thing)

3: intercooler from/for a turbo trans am?

4: wireing harness. i heard mension of "caspers electronics" and found there webpage, but they only seem to sell wireing an connectors. does anyone sell the complete harness?

5: do these powerplants have forged internals or cast? are forged internals available in the aftermarket?

thanks for the help guys. so far most people seem to answer all of my questions with "buy a TTA" any help i could get on this would be great

 

[UR50SLO]

To get a good used or rebuilt engine keep searching the Buick boards or E-bay or other similar sites. Maby call one of the larger vendors who repair turbo buicks and see if they have one avalible from someone who is upgrading to a stage motor.

Caspers does sell a complete harness for the Buick engine. Give them a call direct for price and tell them what application your doing it in.

For the downpipe I would contact Terry Houston and purchase the first 6" or so of the Turbo Buick down pipe. NOT the TTA! We tried the TTA downpipe and found it too restrictive! You can use Turbo buick headers/manifolds And heads. It's a lie that turbo buick heads won't fit between the strut towers of these F-bodys. (the latest copy of GM high tech even said they put the FWD heads on the TTAs to clear the strut towers.. BS!) Maby to give more room for the air conditioning/evap box but not the strut towers!

I don't know what the factory Buick pistons were (forged or not) but they do tolerate ALOT of abuse. JE pistons, TRW/Sealed Power and other popular brands are avalible forged for the Buick.

I'd buy a TTA but I like my 86 Camaro much better!
E-mail me anytime with questions.. I've got pictures that might help.
UR50SLO@aol.com
~Scott

 

[XopherTony]

i am planning to leave the buick heads on (was originaly planning to go with 3.1 heads) alot of people have said the buick ones will fit. even if it is a tight squeeze it will be worth it for the turbo six logo!!!

i'll do a serch for terry houston, thanks.

"Maby call one of the larger vendors who repair turbo buicks and see if they have one avalible from someone who is upgrading to a stage motor."

like who? i was searching for rebuilt engines on google last night for about 30 minutes, only found honda crap and flybynight looking webpages

 

[UR50SLO]

That's the old wifes's tail that says they don't fit or they are tight... (Buick Heads) They work fine.. no worries. Done two swaps on 82-92 Camaro.

For vendors: Cottens, Johns Performance,Kerbin, Hartline Performance,ect ect. They will have contacts that call them wanting to sell their engine or build a stage 2 and need some one to sell their engine to.

Hope this helps,
Scott~

 

[XopherTony]

hey, everyone keeps telling me this swap will cost me 10 grand +. if you don't mind me asking, how much did you spend doing this swap? (ballpark, not including the fbody )

and thanks again for your help. so far i am up to 1300 for harness downpipe and strut tower bar(you know, while i am in there i might as well )

also plan on putting in tube kmemeber and mybe going coilover

 

[cruesix]

6,000 in parts..hours and hours of web serching..2500 miles of driving for parts..a couple cases of miller and all labor was by me or close friends...headers,trans crossmember and harness will be your biggest hurdles..

if i didnt have friends that could rebuild motors and trannys the cost would have probably doubled
Dan

 

[XopherTony]

holy crap!
well the headers are no problem, the stock GN ones will work.
a regular fbody transmission crossmember wont work?
harness is going to cost my 600

 

[91Bird305]

If u plan on going with a different tranny like the 200r4 then you will need a different crossmember. But if you stick with your tranny like I stuck with my 700r4 then u won't have too change the crossmember.

 

[XopherTony]

i have a 60* v6 with a T5. i will probably go with a 90* (v8 type) chevy T5. so i will be buying an aftermatked tranny crossmember anyway. but it will be easy to find.

EDIT: spohn (www.spohn.net) sells tranny crossmembers to put a 200r4 in an fbody for 115$ http://www.spohn.net/category.cfm?categoryid=1056
sweet. T56s too. now if i could only find an engine and tranny......

 

[UR50SLO]

That'll be interesting to see what the engine acts like with a 5 speed behind it!
I gave up on the T-5 after breaking several of them with my small block engines. Maby the Buick will be softer on the tranny.....
You'll need to get a adapter like 91bird did to convert Buick engine to Chevrolet tranny.
Crossmember should stay same if you put the engine in with the tranny in place bolted to the crossmember. That will position the engine in the cradle (front/back) where it need to be.

How much you spend will depend on how crafty you are at spending your money. Selling your old engine/tranny, Good used part for the new setup. and only buying parts that are effective and needed.
Best of luck,
Scott~

 

[CTX-SLPR]

That'll be interesting to see what the engine acts like with a 5 speed behind it!
I gave up on the T-5 after breaking several of them with my small block engines. Maby the Buick will be softer on the tranny.....
You'll need to get a adapter like 91bird did to convert Buick engine to Chevrolet tranny.
Crossmember should stay same if you put the engine in with the tranny in place bolted to the crossmember. That will position the engine in the cradle (front/back) where it need to be.

How much you spend will depend on how crafty you are at spending your money. Selling your old engine/tranny, Good used part for the new setup. and only buying parts that are effective and needed.
Best of luck,
Scott~

GM tried it on the 89 TTA, busted them even faster than a 350 did. The Turbo6 makes too much torque down low for the tranny to survive without major fortification. Also there is the whole issue of spooling on the line, not possible without some serious ECM trickery, and the fact that the turbo despools every time you shift even with a BOV or Bypass Valve. It would be fun on the street but would suck it up at the drag strip without some major prep work in the computer controls to spool it on the line. There is a reason the WRC cars work with a stick and a turbo, there is about $100k of electronics on those cars and its not all traction control and dataloggers.

 

[UR50SLO]

I was wondering if it'd make it worse for breakage... I had no luck keeping the 5 speed alive with the low 12second small block powering it. Maby convert to a 6speed out of the newer Camaro/Firebird...

I agree that spool becomes a factor with a stick car to some extent.

I've got a experiment going with what started out as my winter car which is a 1989 Nissan Maxima. I made all the pipeing to the turbo (TA49)GN turbo, Stock GN intercooler mounted up front with changed inlet/outlets,bigger injectors,Z32 MAF and a few other things FPR ect.
Anyhow, my point here is with 3.0L Maxima engine and a 5speed I don't have problems with spooling it quickly. Traction is my main issue and I'm terrified of blowing up the tranny. I use the Nitto 555R Extreem Drag tire
The car's run 13.49@107.87mph at US 41 this summer with a 2.25 60'
The car has 208,987miles (stock engine)
Guess my point here is I think you'd be able to spool the turbo good with a stick (as mine does) the breif moment between shifts doesn't seem to effect power much. It is a blast to drive and row through the gears feeling it pull every time.
Put a 6speed behind it and have a blast!
~Scott

 

[XopherTony]

i am thinking about a six too. i ahve a lead on a 3.23 posi/disc rear froma fourth gen as well (i'd buy and install that now, add some fun to my 2.8)

and i will deffinatly be selling the 2.8. it runs STRONG and was rebuilt 40K ago, oil still comes out prety clean after 3k. will need a clutch by summer though.

 

[wickedsixx]

......

I'll save you alot of trouble......87 IROC convertible that already has the conversion. $8,000 email me if you are interested in the details. I am in Montana. wickedsixx@yahoo.com
Thanks...Shawn

 

[XopherTony]

thankyou but not interested in a convertable.

 

[91Bird305]

I haven't checked my guage cluster yet during start up but I am wondering from the people that have it finished and running; Do you have to get an 89 TTA gauge cluster in order for your tach / or anything to work?

 

[cruesix]

I haven't checked my guage cluster yet during start up but I am wondering from the people that have it finished and running; Do you have to get an 89 TTA gauge cluster in order for your tach / or anything to work?

i swapped in the tta gauges on my 89 gta convertible and i only had to run the wire for the boost gauge,for it to work other than that it just plugged right in to my exsisting harness..not sure if the tach is differnt or not though.
Dan

 

[XopherTony]

when i buy a TTA i plan on going with all aftermarket guages. i will keep the stock TTA cluster around though...

 

[wickedsixx]

Is money a problem.....

when i buy a TTA i plan on going with all aftermarket guages. i will keep the stock TTA cluster around though...

It would seem to me that it is cheaper to buy a TTA than to do a good conversion with new parts.

 

[XopherTony]

i still have some checking to do, but it looks like yes, that is the case. i would have given up allready, but my brother just anounced that he will be purchasing a mig wealder and tube bender. thats a bunch of stuff i can make right there. saves the $$$