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GN1's valve broke, who else

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FastRegalWE2

Wish I had another Buick!
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
1,886
my #2 intake valve snapped off last night :mad: . I was wondering who else has had this happen. The heads had right at 700 miles on them, from new, not rebuilt. :(
 
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look at #2 intake rocker

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#2 int valve spring is a little high here

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643372_255_full.jpg
 
Not likely without something being wrong in that motor. Was everything checked like coil bind, preload, etc...?
 
Ouch, i would say the piston and block is messed as well. :( better pull the motor. Check the lifter too
 
Intercooler said:
Not likely without something being wrong in that motor. Was everything checked like coil bind, preload, etc...?

Yes, they were new heads. Lifter was ok, havent gotten the head off yet to see the rest of the damage. Im hoping its not real bad since I was cruising at 30mph at about 1500 rpm or less

I was just curious if anyone else had. Its more than likely to eventually run into a bad part.
 
I had a friend take his 1,000 mile GN1s down to the machine shop to be checked out before he put them on his new motor. After disassembly, a couple of the valve guides could be wiggled by hand. Not sure if this would cause your kind of damage if they dropped out.
 
just a side note, I have 100% confidence in my engine builder. I have seen and heard several other of his builds run, both at the track and in daily driven vehicles, and even a boat. What I was looking for was to see if anyone else had had any failures with these heads. :)
Thank you for all inputs.
 
ws6formula50 said:
just a side note, I have 100% confidence in my engine builder. I have seen and heard several other of his builds run, both at the track and in daily driven vehicles, and even a boat. What I was looking for was to see if anyone else had had any failures with these heads. :)
Thank you for all inputs.

Pulling a valve apart? Nope. I have been reading all the boards for years and this is the first I can recall seeing. Valve guides and cracks... plenty but never a valve.
 
Did you by chance over rev it? Just a question seeing there is a bent pushrod and all. Champion uses Ferrea valves....good parts.
 
I drove it 49 miles, never went over 60-65 on the freeway, and thne 30 mph on the street at the time it broke, about 1500 rpm when that happened.
 
I know of a dope :rolleyes: who has a roller 218 in his car with GN1s and set the roller cam on the wrong dot . Easy mistake. well luckly the motor didnt fire but it did break a valve ,Guess which cyl ...... and bend a few . Anyone can make a mistake .
 
busted valve

Hi,
Sorry about your unexpected failure. This really sucks. Your problem has to be one in several million. These heads should see 7000 rpm with no problems. Hardened steel doesn't fail easily, so it must have been a torturous process.Any noise before failure? With roller rockers, I can't imagine a whole lot of side loading on the valve. With the bent pushrod, the valve had to have galled, then seized. And the head broke off, huh? Even if it kissed a piston, it would only bend, from my experience. Bizarre, to be sure. Chinese valves, or a lousy installation maybe.
 
Hey Man, that sucks :mad: ! I know Red took the time to put your motor together. I was there. He was so slow he put me to sleep :biggrin: . Ya know Red, if it's not right it's not leaving his shop. I hope you figure it out. Wish me luck on my street 4.1.
 
MIB said:
Hey Man, that sucks :mad: ! I know Red took the time to put your motor together. I was there. He was so slow he put me to sleep :biggrin: . Ya know Red, if it's not right it's not leaving his shop. I hope you figure it out. Wish me luck on my street 4.1.

I have seen him assy on NEARINGS, very tedious and def spends the time needed to make sure its all right. I think its the Chinese valves :D
It did **** sideways in there like he said before it fell down, you can see the mark in the pic of the runner, the shiny spot to the right of the valve is where it sat cocked for a sec before falling down into the cyl. Im going to pull the head and see how much damage there is to the head. Now I dont need a reason to give the wife to let me do the stroker motor. :biggrin:

Good luck on you 4.1 Thats the next go for me. ;)
 
If you had timed the cam wrong, you would'nt have been able to drive around for so long.
Ive seen your kind of damage a million times. Valve seized in the guide and bent the pushrod. Piston hit the valve and snapped it off.
Its amazing how often this happens with bronze guides, but for some reason, people want them. Bronze guides are very prone to wiping out too. Go with iron guides and dont let anyone convince you otherwise.
This kind of damage was caused by improper valve stem to guide clearance. Too tight. It could be something as simple as the machinist not cleaning the guides out thoroughly and greasing the stems. They leave crud in the guides and next thing you know, a valve sticks. It doesnt take much debris at all to do this. Dont ever let your machinist knurl a guide. Get new iron ones put in and make sure the guides are reamed to a perfect clearance. They need to Mic the stems in 3 places on all valves. Some guys get lazy and dont bother. The guides MUST be spotless clean by blowing them out with carb cleaner or brake cleaner, and then use a simple lithium grease. I watched a guy ream guides out all the time (my old job), and he would ream them without blowing out the debris first and didnt even use cutting oil when he reamed them. This guy didnt last long cause we had quite a few junked motors returned to us after dropping a valve. He was an "expert" who had been doing cylinder heads for 20 years. Amazing how all the years of experience dont equate to a good machinist, ever. You got it or you dont. Another thing that kills guides like this is when the "machinist" machines the top of the guide to accept a perfect circle teflon seal, by using a special cutter that mounts in a hand drill. They ram the pilot of this special tool into the guide, dont use oil, and destroy brand new guides cause they wanted to do it by hand and save 5 minutes. This happens ALL THE TIME. Even the best get lazy, and you end up paying for something in worse condition than when you brought it in. Another thing they do, is they dont machine the top of the stem of the valves. They are rolled over a little, and the valve doesnt slide into the guide cause of this lip. So instead of machining the end flat and grinding a chamfer, they hammer the valve in and destroy it. There are so many things Ive seen people do that would make a customer gasp in disbelief. Just cause a place has a good rep, dont trust everything they do. You need to understand what they're doing and watch every bit of it. Just because they appear to me meticulous and taking their time, doesnt mean they are.
Anyway, I would replace all your guides with iron ones and get the clearance perfect. Everything must be spotless clean and done right.
 
I just looked at your pics again, and realized you have those perfect circle teflon seals. What a coincedence. Another thing I forgot to mention about those seals, is that they dont get enough oil to the guides. They also are very easy to destroy when installing them, and its easy to not even see that you've destroyed them. Everything about those seals is bad. I know they have a good rep, but so what. Ive seen them destroy so many sets of heads its not funny.
Run an OEM style seal and nothing else.
 
That sucks,sorry to see. I hope it didn't hurt the piston.

VadersV6 those aren't the seals that come in Fel pro gasket set are they?
 
I dont know if they come with the fel pro kits nowadays. I quit the engine machining biz about 8 years ago, so Im sure alot has changed. If you look at those pics, you can see a little white seal hugging the top of the guide. They only used to be available separately. The guides have to be custom machined to allow the use of these seals though. Most people take the shortcut and do it with a drill, and simultaneously destroy the top 3/4" or so of the inside of the guide. Another problem is that teflon "cold flows", and distorts. There is such a tight seal around the guide that it doesnt allow much oil to flow down the guide, and this makes the softer bronze guides susceptable to rapid wear and distortion. When the guide starts to wear, the metal shavings tear the seal up. Then as the guide wears, the teflon cold flows and opens up. Then you end up with that nice puff of blue smoke on startup. There are plenty of good seals out there that hug the guide like the perfect circle seals, but they are a larger diameter, and made out of different material and are alot more robust, and allow better lubrication. The main reason people like the PC seals is that they are low profile and allow high lifts to be used without the retainer smacking into the seal. But you can simply cut the guide down and run any seal you want.
 
I have some in the garage and they are blue with a clamp type looking thing on the top 1/2. They aren't white and I don't have bronze guides :)
 
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