God O Mighty Now What!!!! Help!!!!

[rb68rr]

Does this sound like a crank or cam sensor gone bad?

 

[BJM]

Pull up pipe off and repeat smoke test. I am guessing its in there.

Pull cam sensor plug and try to restart, make sure a malfunction code is shown by the Scanmaster. Reset computer and do the same thing with the crank sensor, again verify code showing up. This should eliminate the two sensors.

I am guessing the ignition or timing chain. You seem to be getting some fuel and some spark but not properly. Does it even try to start? Or just dead cranking?

 

[stickybones]

Sweet smelling white exhaust-like smoke is an indication of burning antifreeze. Why it's coming out of your turbo inlet bell is beyond me...unless you have some leak (like a blown headgasket) and really bad seals in the turbo (so exhaust from turbine side gets over into the compressor side).

If the car ran "well" before your started looking for a vacuum leak, then I doubt it's a blown head gasket. You also said there was no coolant in the oil. How about oil in your coolant?

Maybe one of the heavy hitter helpers will jump in here.

Good luck.

BTW, if you have a K&N, the MAT sensor is probably located right in the neck of the filter. Regardless, it's the sensor UPSTREAM of the MAF sensor...or the first sensor in your intake track. Unless your car is modded and you or someone else put it someplace else.

 

[rb68rr]

No, it doesn't try to start, just dead cranking. Took the up pipe off and smoke is coming out the throtle body like a choo-choo train. Didn't get to cam and crank sensors.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

sounds like timing chain

 

[rb68rr]

Hey BJM, where did you go? Would a timing chain jump timing or break just sitting there ideling?

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

stock chain?

if so they are known for the nylon teeth to break off and at that point it dont break it slips

if it slipped a tooth could be the problem yoou were having then while it was running could have slipped more to where it wont run


point is you have combustion coming out the intake which can only happen if the valves are open at wrong time or its fireing on intake stroke which would be hard to do with crank trigger

get the crank to tdc and rotate clockwise 25 degrees and check cam sensor to see if window is by the pickup

if the chain slipped the cam sensor will be set wrong

I havent read the whole story ..did you just do valvesprings?
the extra load on old chain by new springs can be hard on it

 

[ThikStik]

Yep,
Timing chain. The mechanic who knew of my car before I bought it said he just got thru replacin a lifter and while engine was idling it crapped a timing set. Check a few cylinders for wweirdo compression reading. Is cranking speed faster and erratic. As maf is concerned, I cant see low current electronics causing very long smoking spells.
GL

 

[BJM]

The smoke coming out of the throttle body is what I thought you were going to see. It really does seem like the chain. Changing it is a long swap. It took me 18 hours last summer over two days. Other guys can do it faster I am sure but I was taking my time. I haven't had one fail but a lot of guys here had had failures. The stock replacement is all metal so it won't happen twice.

Verify your sensors first though, do the crank and cam sensor checks. The car won't start without them, maybe for some strange reason they aren't coding.

If you do suspect your chain, pull the cam sensor out and you can get a glimpse of the chain through the hole. There are little 90 boroscopes that can go in with an integral light source attached to let you look around. I have used one at work. Not a common tool I must admit.

 

[rb68rr]

Took it to shop today and it has no compression. They said to replace timing chain, gear, cam sensor, etc. the total cost for parts and labor would be around $650.00. Does this sound about right or too high?

 

[Intercooler]

Originally posted by rb68rr
Took it to shop today and it has no compression. They said to replace timing chain, gear, cam sensor, etc. the total cost for parts and labor would be around $650.00. Does this sound about right or too high?

It has no compression where? One cylinder or all? Doubt all but if it was the chain and you been turning it over you may be doing heads or possiby pistons too!

 

[BJM]

If the chain has skipped too far the compression will be gone. Hopefully no valves got banged up, nothing you could have done to avoid it, they would have been banged when the chain slipped.

Keep the old chain and post some pictures of it.

Your cam sensor won't need changing. I changed the following

Water pump
Front seal
Chain and gears
Cam button - use modern 3800 roller button and spring from dealer.

Later I dropped the pan and swapped the oil pickup. If you lost a lot of teeth they will be in the pan.

 

[salvageV6]

I'd say it's $100 or so too high.

For a good shop quick turnaround for your driver might be worth having them do it.

If you have time price another shop.

 

[timstips]

Does $650.00 sound about right. I would imagine it would take 5 or 6 hours.

 

[John Purdom]

The most important thing mentioned above needs to be said again. MAKE SURE that whoever does this job pulls the pan, and replaces the oil pump pickup. When those nylon tooth gears come apart, the debris goes in the pan, and will clog the oil pickup every time. I saw many a blown 60's Pontiac perf. motor from this very oversight. Now is also the time to get the high volume frnt cover/oil pump setup..

 

[BJM]

No one likes to tell a mechanic how to do their job but I was paranoid about them priming the oil pump after pulling the cover off, regardless of whether the pan was pulled or not. I made my own priming tool from a SBC distributor shaft. I wouldn't put it past some places to just crank the motor over for a long time until they got oil pressure. I just did the job myself but its not my daily driver.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

glad im a machanic $650 bites

I did stixx car timing chain and rear main for like $200 but thats buddy price and only labor

can do both in a day if not to many beers in between wrench turning

I always recomend pulling the pan and getting the teeth out when replacing the stock chain

 

[rb68rr]

Stopped by the shop today while they had it torn down and looked at the timing chain gear. Man, it was really gone. Teeth missing everywhere. Hope to get it back tommorrow. Thanks for all the help guys. You're great! Anybody got $700.00 I can borrow?????

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

cool deal

lots of money but good to see the problem getting fixed so you can get back up and running

 

[salvageV6]

What do they charge an hour?

Hope they put the new style roller cam button on it, pulled the pan, did the pickup tube and screen and did a new neoprene front and rear main seal.