Going Megasquirt
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Daniel Jost
Squirtin six
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I'm not familiar with a Gen 2 LCM Innovate. What I do know is that when ever I hear "Chip" now I have horror flash backs of when I had no real control over my fuel injection and could only tweak little things...
,Dan
,Dan
0ok so if i want to do themegasqirt my mself where where do i fine all the parts i need thanks for all your help just want to to go the less expensive route i do have a u pullit junk yard in my area if that where i can get some of the parts and where else do i need to go .
Daniel Jost
Squirtin six
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http://turbobuick.com/forums/threads/the-official-ms3-x-build-thread.354674/ <-- This should be all the info you need for building one.
I also want to post an update on where I'm at with the megasquirt3/x;
I couldn't be happier with my swap to MS3/x everything is working flawless. Over the winter I decided to pull out the whole stock harness and stock brakes and make a new harness that only has the wires I need, which eliminates all the emissions stuff and stock ignition wiring. I eliminated the stock IAC and mounted a Ford PWM IAC at the back of the intake, I have no got it going yet since the junkyard IAC I picked up was just that junk... When it is powered up it just buzzes but does not move. I also installed a Ford Flex Fuel Sensor, MS3 controlled meth injection, EGT Data logging, and twin MS3 controlled fans in the car. I also got the Speed input wired up so the MS3x inputs speed from the car which allows easy tuning of the MS3 controlling TCC clutch lock up.
So for those of you who are new to this, as my car sits now here is what I have WORKING ON THE CAR so far which is a HUGE improvement over the stock ECM.
- Auto VE Tuning
- On-The-Fly tune flashing
- Wireless Bluetooth ECM Flashing/Data logging
- Android device bluetooth data logging (Also inputs G force in data log), My Droid-X works great for this!
- Tune Switching
- 2-Step
- Anti-Lag
- Sequential LSx CNP Ign
- ECM controlled progressive Meth injection
- NO MAF
- Closed loop speed density
- Electronic Boost control
- Relocated Ford IAC
- EGT input
- ECM controlled twin fuel pumps
- ECM controlled twin "Intrepid" fans
- Speed input to ECM for; Instant fuel econ, TCC Lockup control, Accurate speed reading, and Boost by gear.
- Still need to setup Flex Fueling
- Shift light
- Over Boost spark cut
- Spark Cut rev limiter
- Lean AFR engine protection
- High EGT engine protection
Note that there are many other things I could do with this MS3x but because of my needs I have not messed with them. This system is extremely powerful and I would put it up against any aftermarket ECM out there, at a fraction of the cost!
,Dan
I also want to post an update on where I'm at with the megasquirt3/x;
I couldn't be happier with my swap to MS3/x everything is working flawless. Over the winter I decided to pull out the whole stock harness and stock brakes and make a new harness that only has the wires I need, which eliminates all the emissions stuff and stock ignition wiring. I eliminated the stock IAC and mounted a Ford PWM IAC at the back of the intake, I have no got it going yet since the junkyard IAC I picked up was just that junk... When it is powered up it just buzzes but does not move. I also installed a Ford Flex Fuel Sensor, MS3 controlled meth injection, EGT Data logging, and twin MS3 controlled fans in the car. I also got the Speed input wired up so the MS3x inputs speed from the car which allows easy tuning of the MS3 controlling TCC clutch lock up.
So for those of you who are new to this, as my car sits now here is what I have WORKING ON THE CAR so far which is a HUGE improvement over the stock ECM.
- Auto VE Tuning
- On-The-Fly tune flashing
- Wireless Bluetooth ECM Flashing/Data logging
- Android device bluetooth data logging (Also inputs G force in data log), My Droid-X works great for this!
- Tune Switching
- 2-Step
- Anti-Lag
- Sequential LSx CNP Ign
- ECM controlled progressive Meth injection
- NO MAF
- Closed loop speed density
- Electronic Boost control
- Relocated Ford IAC
- EGT input
- ECM controlled twin fuel pumps
- ECM controlled twin "Intrepid" fans
- Speed input to ECM for; Instant fuel econ, TCC Lockup control, Accurate speed reading, and Boost by gear.
- Still need to setup Flex Fueling
- Shift light
- Over Boost spark cut
- Spark Cut rev limiter
- Lean AFR engine protection
- High EGT engine protection
Note that there are many other things I could do with this MS3x but because of my needs I have not messed with them. This system is extremely powerful and I would put it up against any aftermarket ECM out there, at a fraction of the cost!
,Dan
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porsches4lunch
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Dude
You have to start building and selling these. I am first in line !!!!!!
You have to start building and selling these. I am first in line !!!!!!
Daniel Jost
Squirtin six
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Haha, Bpman I have been running my MS3x for a whole season now and I could never go back to a stock ECM again. Funny thing is I sold all my bandaid add ons (MAF, translator, Powerlogger, chips......) and stock ECM and paid for the whole swap.
Porsches, I would love to build these and sell them but I don't have the time and if I did with my time figured in it would cost half of an XFI setup which to me is getting to be up there in price. Though I think it is a great option for someone who is a DIYer and looking for a fun project which will definitely get you familiar with your car, plus Bob and I have laid down all the foot work, now it is just following directions. ;-)
,Dan
Porsches, I would love to build these and sell them but I don't have the time and if I did with my time figured in it would cost half of an XFI setup which to me is getting to be up there in price. Though I think it is a great option for someone who is a DIYer and looking for a fun project which will definitely get you familiar with your car, plus Bob and I have laid down all the foot work, now it is just following directions. ;-)
,Dan
You guys have done a phenomenal job building, testing, and most importantly, documenting everything. I have been following this thread closely and intend to outfit my TR with MS3 this winter, when I swap in the 4L80E. Thanks for leading the way!
same here thanks to daniel-bob- black boosted cars-i ask daniel what i needed to get it done and he posted a tread on this site where to get the parts parts list and price .he even posted the wiring and firmware thanks .i just hope i get it right the first time ,when i turn that key and all goes well .
Daniel Jost
Squirtin six
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Hey guys, I posted back to BP on my for sale thread. I am trying to make a schematic for the adapter harness so it is very easy for people to make, I am just a little behind at the moment as my converter in my car ate up the stator and I am having a new shipped to put in as well as doing the larger twin piston 2WD Blazer brake conversion on my GN and my brother's Monte SS among other things.
Also I am most likely going to take advantage of the ABS reluctor wheel in the new wheel bearings, and wire up the stock wheel speed sensors from the blazer wheel bearings to the MS3x and try to do comparative traction control. You may be asking "Is this necessary?"....... No it isn't I am just doing it because the MS3 can and it is no added cost. Though I will have to drive my car in the rain to test it out (Test it on the hoist first), since I run ET Street Radials and have a pretty good hooking suspension.
,Dan
Also I am most likely going to take advantage of the ABS reluctor wheel in the new wheel bearings, and wire up the stock wheel speed sensors from the blazer wheel bearings to the MS3x and try to do comparative traction control. You may be asking "Is this necessary?"....... No it isn't I am just doing it because the MS3 can and it is no added cost. Though I will have to drive my car in the rain to test it out (Test it on the hoist first), since I run ET Street Radials and have a pretty good hooking suspension.
,Dan
porsches4lunch
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Then How about a Plug and Play Harness? Ha Ha Ha , i know i just don't quit huh ; )
Daniel Jost
Squirtin six
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I have no idea, I know there is big talk about a Delphi 56 pin PNP coming out. Of course you would probably be able to mod it a bit to make it work for out application.
,Dan
,Dan
I have been following this thread as the MS is really interesting and getting rid of the eprom ecm seems like it would open up a world of possibilities.
I don't know that much about how the MS is put together but if the adapter to the buick wiring harness is available how much work would it be
to put together a pnp? Could all the wiring be internal to the MS enclosure?
I don't know that much about how the MS is put together but if the adapter to the buick wiring harness is available how much work would it be
to put together a pnp? Could all the wiring be internal to the MS enclosure?
There is already a DIYPNP for the GN, it is based off of the microsquirt module.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/diypnp-delphi-56pin-unassembled-kit-p-389.html
And if you have to have the MS3, then you can wire it to the DIYBOB.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/diybob-breakout-adapter-delphi-56-pin-p-424.html
These are kits that require assembly, but if you contact DIYautotune, they may be able to assemble one for you, altho they are not all that hard to solder up.
I am about to do a GN with a Microsquirt and of one my designed boards for the factory GN ECM case. I am removing one of the old Accel Gen 7,and a Fast Track install harness.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/microsquirt-engine-management-system-30-wiring-harness-p-131.html
But anyone could combined this Microsquirt with one of the DIYBOB boards for an easy install.
These DIYPNP and DIYBOB for Gm,have all been out for over a year, at DIYautotune. I had to bug Jerry about making one of these available, and then they haven't really been popular, YET...
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/diypnp-delphi-56pin-unassembled-kit-p-389.html
And if you have to have the MS3, then you can wire it to the DIYBOB.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/diybob-breakout-adapter-delphi-56-pin-p-424.html
These are kits that require assembly, but if you contact DIYautotune, they may be able to assemble one for you, altho they are not all that hard to solder up.
I am about to do a GN with a Microsquirt and of one my designed boards for the factory GN ECM case. I am removing one of the old Accel Gen 7,and a Fast Track install harness.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/microsquirt-engine-management-system-30-wiring-harness-p-131.html
But anyone could combined this Microsquirt with one of the DIYBOB boards for an easy install.
These DIYPNP and DIYBOB for Gm,have all been out for over a year, at DIYautotune. I had to bug Jerry about making one of these available, and then they haven't really been popular, YET...
Daniel Jost
Squirtin six
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Correct me if im wrong but microsquirt does not support 6 cylinder COP or SFI right? Also it has limited I/O pins compared to MS3/x, just so everyone is clear on the difference.
Your right, high imp. injectors only(in batch or Semi Sequential)no sfi, and limited I/O but that is why it would lend it's self to be an easy project that for someone getting into Megasquirt. Ala Plug and Play.
It will control a wasted spark cop, with the ls style coils, but I was refering to contolling the factory CCCi ignition. Once up running on the factory module, someone could then choose to convert to the Coil Near Plug LS coils. I think someone in this thread did it that way with the MS3.
Most people are better off going in steps on the Megasquirt route, It is a big undertaking to just jump right to a MS3. I find most people dont want the extra complications, for very little gain.
I have made nearly 1000hp with a BATCH fire (configured)Megasquirt MS3 system, on a Stock L33 LS engine. I believe SFI can gain you 5 to 8 percent over a bank, if you are familiar with the tuning of injector timing.(not easy, or "guess"able)
Just so people know the other Megasquirts(besides the MS3) are a giant step up in tunablity, and useablity than a factory ECM.
Is it an MS3, No.
But is an MS3 the only choice, abosolutely No.
Daniel Jost
Squirtin six
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Atomic I will have to agree with you on your previous post. I went with the C3I at first on my setup.
I will also say that tonight I finally finished my car. I now have the MS3 controlling the Alky injection directly and is PWM controlling it with the INJ1 output. It is working very well and when combined with the Power Stroke FMIC I am seeing IATs of 67* under boost and the ambient temp is 77*! You have to love alky! Well I should have more updates as the summer goes on but I just drove it home from the shop and only have around 20 miles on it, next week I will be driving it around 6 hours each way to Green Bay, WI and back. Then 7.5 hours each way to SE Kansas and back so it will get its amount of road trips this year!
,Dan
I will also say that tonight I finally finished my car. I now have the MS3 controlling the Alky injection directly and is PWM controlling it with the INJ1 output. It is working very well and when combined with the Power Stroke FMIC I am seeing IATs of 67* under boost and the ambient temp is 77*! You have to love alky! Well I should have more updates as the summer goes on but I just drove it home from the shop and only have around 20 miles on it, next week I will be driving it around 6 hours each way to Green Bay, WI and back. Then 7.5 hours each way to SE Kansas and back so it will get its amount of road trips this year!
,Dan
You would only need one of the those kits, not all.
Two of the kits are not upgradeable, the microsquirt, and the DIYPNP.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/diypnp-delphi-56pin-unassembled-kit-p-389.html
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/microsquirt-engine-management-system-30-wiring-harness-p-131.html
The DIYPNP may become upgradeable to the MS3, but it is not right now.
The other is the one is upgradeable to the MS3.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/...le-efi-system-pcb30-kit-black-case-p-108.html
There is an unavoidable learning curve with the Megasquirt, and any other "stand alone" EFI system.
But the other systems out there are commonly sold to a consumer from a specialized vendor, and thus the transition from factory to aftermarket is easier(usually)
I.E. (hardware)things plug in, (software) a base tune, (support) very little things you have to figure out yourself, and so on.
This ease is directly proportional to the cost also.(those vendors have to stay in business, obviously)
The Megasquirt, is different, it is from an EFI collective of users, and developers. So it is a very flexable tool, but not one with out needed expertise.
No one makes a Plug and Play, Megasquirt for the TR. Yet. DIYautotune, was/is going to do an install write up on the GN platform, but it has not happened yet.
The nearest thing is the DIYPNP, 56 pin Delphi.(hardware)
I and many have basic tunes and configurations for the various version.(software)
First done on an MS1 by a member called WopOnTour along time ago.
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#c31
And there is a forum for any question anyone may have.(support)
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=125
I did my first one on an MS1 with a version 2.2 board quite awhile ago, so I have progressed thru the different levels, and I find the project of an MS3 install on the TR daunting.
So if you want a challenge it is there,or if you want to get it working ASAP it is there, if you want it to be easy, that depends on your comfort level with electronics, and cars.
I hope that this is not even more confusing the issue.
Two of the kits are not upgradeable, the microsquirt, and the DIYPNP.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/diypnp-delphi-56pin-unassembled-kit-p-389.html
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/microsquirt-engine-management-system-30-wiring-harness-p-131.html
The DIYPNP may become upgradeable to the MS3, but it is not right now.
The other is the one is upgradeable to the MS3.
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/...le-efi-system-pcb30-kit-black-case-p-108.html
There is an unavoidable learning curve with the Megasquirt, and any other "stand alone" EFI system.
But the other systems out there are commonly sold to a consumer from a specialized vendor, and thus the transition from factory to aftermarket is easier(usually)
I.E. (hardware)things plug in, (software) a base tune, (support) very little things you have to figure out yourself, and so on.
This ease is directly proportional to the cost also.(those vendors have to stay in business, obviously)
The Megasquirt, is different, it is from an EFI collective of users, and developers. So it is a very flexable tool, but not one with out needed expertise.
No one makes a Plug and Play, Megasquirt for the TR. Yet. DIYautotune, was/is going to do an install write up on the GN platform, but it has not happened yet.
The nearest thing is the DIYPNP, 56 pin Delphi.(hardware)
I and many have basic tunes and configurations for the various version.(software)
First done on an MS1 by a member called WopOnTour along time ago.
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#c31
And there is a forum for any question anyone may have.(support)
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=125
I did my first one on an MS1 with a version 2.2 board quite awhile ago, so I have progressed thru the different levels, and I find the project of an MS3 install on the TR daunting.
So if you want a challenge it is there,or if you want to get it working ASAP it is there, if you want it to be easy, that depends on your comfort level with electronics, and cars.
I hope that this is not even more confusing the issue.
