achalmersman
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Group effort to illustrate 200-4r weak points
- Thread starter Mike T
- Start date
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Mike T
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Another visual that should be helpful. It shows the clutches that are engaged during ratio changes.
Not sure. Sounds like you know more than I do.
TexasT
Texas, Where are you from
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Part 622 the sun shell can strip out the splines and or have wear on the "tangs" where it meshes with the direct drum.
I would like to point out that Mr. Bison has in the past had fancy(read expensive, I know he doesn't control the price), apply rings for the direct clutch packs. These would resist the flex of the thin, flimsy stock ones. I'm sure these might help those having probs with the smoked direct clutches.
The pump rings need to be swapped for hardened ones . No way to tell that I know of what you have in a trans that was assembled thirty yrs ago. For the money I cant see not putting in new hardened rings. While on this i have been told that the newer 700r4/4l60e pump slide is more "robust" than the 2004r slides that are thirty yrs old and have been through heat and many pressure cycles and fatigued.
Pump slide spring need replacement. I bought the bag of five sonnax springs. I didn't know any better when I assembled mine but have since learned from Dave H that I should have put the small stock inner spring into the sonnax and run it like that.
One more Mr. Bison upgrade I didn't do because I found out too late is the over pressure relief washer mod. The roll pin tends to
"cut" the spring so Mr. Bison advised to install a washer between the spring and the roll pin to prevent this.
I have a couple more trix i think but don't have them right off the top of my head. You guys are way more experienced than me other than pulling a 2004r in and out of a Regal as mine has been in and out over twenty times and i do it laying in the driveway. Yeah, a 3' extension to do the bell housing bolts is essential.
I would like to point out that Mr. Bison has in the past had fancy(read expensive, I know he doesn't control the price), apply rings for the direct clutch packs. These would resist the flex of the thin, flimsy stock ones. I'm sure these might help those having probs with the smoked direct clutches.
The pump rings need to be swapped for hardened ones . No way to tell that I know of what you have in a trans that was assembled thirty yrs ago. For the money I cant see not putting in new hardened rings. While on this i have been told that the newer 700r4/4l60e pump slide is more "robust" than the 2004r slides that are thirty yrs old and have been through heat and many pressure cycles and fatigued.
Pump slide spring need replacement. I bought the bag of five sonnax springs. I didn't know any better when I assembled mine but have since learned from Dave H that I should have put the small stock inner spring into the sonnax and run it like that.
One more Mr. Bison upgrade I didn't do because I found out too late is the over pressure relief washer mod. The roll pin tends to
"cut" the spring so Mr. Bison advised to install a washer between the spring and the roll pin to prevent this.
I have a couple more trix i think but don't have them right off the top of my head. You guys are way more experienced than me other than pulling a 2004r in and out of a Regal as mine has been in and out over twenty times and i do it laying in the driveway. Yeah, a 3' extension to do the bell housing bolts is essential.
SS/GN
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I would like to point out that Mr. Bison has in the past had fancy(read expensive, I know he doesn't control the price), apply rings for the direct clutch packs. These would resist the flex of the thin, flimsy stock ones. I'm sure these might help those having probs with the smoked direct clutches.
I am not sure I know what apply rings you are referring to??
I am not sure I know what apply rings you are referring to??
The terminology of the apply ring and the pressure plate get swapped around and confused with a lot of the hobbyist builders. The apply ring is between the clutch pack and the piston. The pressure plate is between the clutch pack and the snap ring. There are stronger versions of both available now and both are a much needed improvement, as stated before the direct clutch area is already too small for what's being asked of it and deflection is not going to help matters any. Below pic is of a brand new gm pressure plate, installed and run for only a few hundred miles and opened back up for an unrelated reason. I hit it on the flat sanding plate and you can see how only the outer edges are being sanded meaning the plate has deformed. It hadn't been overheated and it was dual fed, with a billet piston (which doesn't need the apply ring as it's built into the piston). 275 psi line presssure.
TexasT
Texas, Where are you from
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what I'm referring to is the number 146 in the pic in the first post. These were expensive when I inquired as he had to get a minimum of five so that pit it way out of my budget. I thought about trying to get a group buy together but I got laid off my regular Job so it never even got mentioned. Maybe we could get some of us together and do one. The billet piston is another real nice piece. I'm not in that area of hp so I'm doing ok with the stock stuff and red raybestos frictions. I get a big smile every time it snaps into third.
Apply rings are cheap. It’s the pressure plates that are expensive. I can sell you quantities of apply rings if you do a lot of builds
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It’s not ready to run since the clutch clearance can’t be determined without the drum. .100” thick steels should always be used here throughout the clutch stack. The pressure plate is .1875” thick as it comes and is meant to be turned to thickness for clutch clearance. You can easily turn down about 50% of the surface of the plate for snap ring clearance and not effeftnthe integrity of this material much st all. If you want the stack with the non machined plate or a machined plate to your provided thickness message me.
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TexasT
Texas, Where are you from
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sorry to have mislead others with the incorrect terminology.
I would like to inquire what brand clutch plates you are using if that isn't one of the secrets.
I would like to inquire what brand clutch plates you are using if that isn't one of the secrets.
If you are talking to me, that particular trans is a 6 clutch setup with raybestos stage 1 .080 frictions and .090/.100 steels as necessary for proper clearance.
TexasT
Texas, Where are you from
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I'm asking anyone willing to reveal what they are using . Might be some thing better but I am also using the raybestos red stage 1 clutches in my direct.
I use raybestos blue plates in most though my days of building these transmissions are about done. I might do a handful a year at this point. Most that are spending $3500-4000 for a 200-4r would be better off with a GM 3 speed. Torque capacity, ease of modification, parts availability and longevity being the primary reasons
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TexasT
Texas, Where are you from
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is that what is in your 75+pic?
Mostly track cars with well over 600hp? I can see where a car you don't drive much on the street would want to go to a th350/400. I drive mine daily so I like the od and the lockup.
thanks for lending your expertise it is invaluable to us.
Mostly track cars with well over 600hp? I can see where a car you don't drive much on the street would want to go to a th350/400. I drive mine daily so I like the od and the lockup.
thanks for lending your expertise it is invaluable to us.
