Had a conversation about an ideal fuel management system for TB ( Is there one?)

[HighPSI]

If I'm making a pass and for some reason I lose my fuel pump or alky people say I can't lift fast enough to save the motor. Ok fine. Is that all there is to it or is there something out there that will buy me some time or shut me down?

Back to your original question. The features in the XFI will buy you some extra time since it can monitor fuel pressure, boost pressure, and oil pressure. You could even use the aux boost output to protect against overboost if you wanted.
As Mr Spool stated, in addition to the XFI protection, you can also watch your boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, alky light, and knock sensor during the pass.
I'm not saying everyone needs to go out and buy an XFI, but in response to what the OP is asking, I think it's a great option.

 

[HighPSI]

I have installed Autometer Elite series gauges for fuel pressure, oil pressure, boost and water temp. These gauges have logging output and hi/lo warn outputs that are configurable by the user. These will be connected to the FAST analog inputs for logging and I will contact Cal to get his input on what to trigger with the outputs from each gauge. I have his Boost Leash controller that has an input that can drop the boost almost instantly by opening a solenoid, this could easily save an engine from catastrophic failure. I have some work to do over the winter to get this connected as well as some other electronic controls. I will also be installing a pressure transducer for the ALKY pump.

Whenever you need assistance, Brian, just give me a call.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Back to your original question. The features in the XFI will buy you some extra time since it can monitor fuel pressure, boost pressure, and oil pressure. You could even use the aux boost output to protect against overboost if you wanted.
As Mr Spool stated, in addition to the XFI protection, you can also watch your boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, alky light, and knock sensor during the pass.
I'm not saying everyone needs to go out and buy an XFI, but in response to what the OP is asking, I think it's a great option.

I try and watch the SM for KR and have my WB on the A pillar. The SM is sitting just to the right of the WB gauge so I can keep my eyes somewhat forward. Monitoring much more than that is tough to do and drive the car. Especially if a person is doing the 2-3 shift manually. With some practice I'm sure it will become easier but if a guy did loose fuel pressure or boost went out of control I don't know if I can react quick enough.

My situation with blowing my head gasket was due to too much compression when the motor was built. I had a safe tune, no KR and 18 pounds of boost. I lifted the head the very first time I let in to the car after 800 miles of easy driving and minimal boost to seat the rings. I had ZERO chance of avoiding it so I'm not sure anything could have saved me in this case. My motor was never going to be right no matter what I did. 9.5 compression in an iron headed motor with 93 and alky probably isn't ideal. I can't run E85 around here and I'm not going to run racing fuel all the time. I'm mainly a street car but like the track a few times a year.

Now I'm back on the engine stand and will make sure I have the correct compression this time around as I will be putting the motor back together myself. I'm going to get with Eric at TT when I'm done and make sure the current chip settings will do since I'm going to TA aluminum heads. If so I'll get it down the road a while with that chip and look at my options if I decide to go with something a little for sophisticated. I know I can get it done with a 5.7 and may stay with it but it would sure be nice to have a few of the features the XFI has or even the SD2 in the event I have an issue.

 

[Reggie West]

Barracuda your combo is not much different from mine. I am running 9 to 1 CR on the motor and it worked just fine right up to the point that the alky pump seals started to go away. By the time I figured it out, the pistons had paid the price for it. Luckily the rods, mains and the crank were OK and went back together just fine. The motor had been together for 6 years prior to this. It took me a long time to get the alky and pump gas equation down without popping a head gasket. I got very good at head gaskets unfortunately.

I have noticed 2 things goofing around with iron heads and the alky unit.
1. You can get away with a little more timing with aluminum heads than you can with iron heads.
2. The higher CR required more fuel in the VE tables even at light boost and low rpms.
3. According to your posts you are using head bolts. I would suggest going to the studs, that will give you more clamping force to hold the head on the block. Make no mistake, the correct AF ratios and TIMING are everything on these motors.

I am still throwing the idea of E85 as the fuel for this next adventure. Especially with iron heads. Still debating that one.

The FAST unit will save the motor when things go wrong. There is no gauge, eyeball or ear that will catch what the computer does in milliseconds. Its not cheap but neither is rebuilding a motor and Cal will get your tune down quickly. He probably does them in his sleep by now. No one else gives you that kind of support when you buy their parts. Food for thought.

 

[Mr.Spool]

The FAST unit will save the motor when things go wrong

no it wont and thinking this way will lead to broken parts.

 

[Mr.Spool]

the correct AF ratios and TIMING are everything on these motors.

I agree with this

 

[Mr.Spool]

Cal will get your tune down quickly.

I agree and fully believe more guys should stop trying to tune there cars and let those with more experience handle this task

 

[Mr.Spool]

it worked just fine right up to the point that the alky pump seals started to go away

had you had a meth gauge you would have been able to see this or log it saving you time and broken parts

 

[bison]

I try and watch the SM for KR and have my WB on the A pillar. The SM is sitting just to the right of the WB gauge so I can keep my eyes somewhat forward. Monitoring much more than that is tough to do and drive the car. Especially if a person is doing the 2-3 shift manually. With some practice I'm sure it will become easier but if a guy did loose fuel pressure or boost went out of control I don't know if I can react quick enough.

My situation with blowing my head gasket was due to too much compression when the motor was built. I had a safe tune, no KR and 18 pounds of boost. I lifted the head the very first time I let in to the car after 800 miles of easy driving and minimal boost to seat the rings. I had ZERO chance of avoiding it so I'm not sure anything could have saved me in this case. My motor was never going to be right no matter what I did. 9.5 compression in an iron headed motor with 93 and alky probably isn't ideal. I can't run E85 around here and I'm not going to run racing fuel all the time. I'm mainly a street car but like the track a few times a year.

Now I'm back on the engine stand and will make sure I have the correct compression this time around as I will be putting the motor back together myself. I'm going to get with Eric at TT when I'm done and make sure the current chip settings will do since I'm going to TA aluminum heads. If so I'll get it down the road a while with that chip and look at my options if I decide to go with something a little for sophisticated. I know I can get it done with a 5.7 and may stay with it but it would sure be nice to have a few of the features the XFI has or even the SD2 in the event I have an issue.

There would be no reason not to go with an SD 2 chip if you know what you should be running for a tune. The nice thing is you can have the display right on your scanmaster in front of you. I even use a scanmaster 3 regularly with XFI cars. It makes for a really good tuning experience on the Dyno and for quick street bursts. Very easy to watch the a/f as I'm loading the engine rather than hope it's ok when I look at the log. Having both the laptop and scanmaster running at once off the same data stream is easy with a break out harness. Just power and ground the scanmaster and you are gtg.


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[HighPSI]

I thought the OP wanted to know what system was the safest, not what systems would get the job done. I agree the SD will work, buy I disagree that it is the safest approach

 

[TurboDave]

I thought the OP wanted to know what system was the safest, not what systems would get the job done. I agree the SD will work, buy I disagree that it is the safest approach

Why would it not be as safe? Such statements are fine, but back it up with facts please.

 

[Pronto]

I would think the high speed corrections the XFI can do vs a stock ecm would in itself be "safer".

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Barracuda your combo is not much different from mine. I am running 9 to 1 CR on the motor and it worked just fine right up to the point that the alky pump seals started to go away. By the time I figured it out, the pistons had paid the price for it. Luckily the rods, mains and the crank were OK and went back together just fine. The motor had been together for 6 years prior to this. It took me a long time to get the alky and pump gas equation down without popping a head gasket. I got very good at head gaskets unfortunately.

I have noticed 2 things goofing around with iron heads and the alky unit.
1. You can get away with a little more timing with aluminum heads than you can with iron heads.
2. The higher CR required more fuel in the VE tables even at light boost and low rpms.
3. According to your posts you are using head bolts. I would suggest going to the studs, that will give you more clamping force to hold the head on the block. Make no mistake, the correct AF ratios and TIMING are everything on these motors.

I am still throwing the idea of E85 as the fuel for this next adventure. Especially with iron heads. Still debating that one.

The FAST unit will save the motor when things go wrong. There is no gauge, eyeball or ear that will catch what the computer does in milliseconds. Its not cheap but neither is rebuilding a motor and Cal will get your tune down quickly. He probably does them in his sleep by now. No one else gives you that kind of support when you buy their parts. Food for thought.

I sold the iron heads that I was running and will be installing TA heads at 8.9 compression. I'm also going with studs this time as well. After talking with Nick Macale I am sold on going this route. My old heads and set up would have been fine if the proper sized head gasket would have been installed but I believe the route I am going now is better all around for me.

I like the fact that the motor will make fun power at 15 psi on the street and scream at 18 psi at the track. I also realize the tune needs to be right at all times but factors out of my control can cause me serious problems that's why I started this thread. I too had a basically new alky pump leak on me. I caught it before I had an issue. Julio hooked me up under warranty and all is good. I keep a spare pump on the shelf as well.

I may have stated earlier in this post but I run a system on my Harley similar to a FAST system on these cars. I have been using this system for a few years with zero issues but my bike is not boosted so the chance of carnage with a bad tune is not something I worry about too much.

I have thought about E85 as well and honestly I would go that route if I could get it around here easily. They took our E85 away from us so I would need to drive 13 miles to get it. Not real handy but I may do some investigation on where E85 is sold in my area and places I frequent and see if it's doable. I get like 24 MPG so I can go quite a ways before needing fuel. I'm just contemplating this right now. I also know that E85 won't yield me the same fuel mileage I get now so that is also part of the decision.

No matter what I do I will need a different chip or chip tune from TT since I'm changing a few things on the motor. Not sure what changes Eric may make to the chip I have now but I'm not going to just throw it back in without some consultation.

I may just run the 5.7 for a while and get some easy miles on the motor once Eric is done with it. I like some of the features these other options have such as auto tune but wasn't sure how reliable it is? My understanding is that the chip or system will only advance or pull 10 points so if there is a failure between the 02 and computer the computer reverts to the VE tables and runs the car that way. Seems like a fail proof set up?

At any rate there is a lot of good information coming from this thread that's helping me and hopefully a few other guys that are in the learning curve with me. I get all the concepts and can tune a naturally aspirated engine with a carb as good as most out there that know anything. I just need to wrap my head around some of the ins and outs in this game and choose a set up I feel comfortable with and move forward.

 

[bison]

I thought the OP wanted to know what system was the safest, not what systems would get the job done. I agree the SD will work, buy I disagree that it is the safest approach

I agree. I should have clarified my post. I would choose an XFI myself but if he was not going to jump on an XFI I would use an sd2 over what he currently has


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[HighPSI]

Why would it not be as safe? Such statements are fine, but back it up with facts please.

Did you read my previous posts in this thread? Fuel pressure compensation, low oil pressure cutoff, Individual cylinder timing and fueling, etc..

So far, nobody has posted up the safety advantages of the stock ecu over the XFI

The OP is also considering E85 but may have availability issues. I admit I'm not up on the latest chip stuff. Can a chip be programmed for flex fuel? That would be a huge safety factor with the various blends available at the pump. Not to mention being able to blend with gasoline when E85 isn't handy.

 

[norbs]

While you talking about the stock ECU and its safety net, reading the following thread will get you thinking again.... What ever system you plan to use if you want it to be safer install a JS knock box....

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/th...ck-ecu-vs-js-box-and-keeping-it-alive.399244/

 

[MDavis]

I agree and fully believe more guys should stop trying to tune there cars and let those with more experience handle this task

That's easy to say until you live hundreds of miles away from the tuning experts you speak of.

 

[Mr.Spool]

That's easy to say until you live hundreds of miles away from the tuning experts you speak of.

Ibmo Getting the car to run good is always worth the trip

 

[TurboDave]

Did you read my previous posts in this thread? Fuel pressure compensation, low oil pressure cutoff, Individual cylinder timing and fueling, etc..

So far, nobody has posted up the safety advantages of the stock ecu over the XFI

The OP is also considering E85 but may have availability issues. I admit I'm not up on the latest chip stuff. Can a chip be programmed for flex fuel? That would be a huge safety factor with the various blends available at the pump. Not to mention being able to blend with gasoline when E85 isn't handy.

You make some good points, about fuel pressure compensation and low oil pressure cuttoff, but I was referring to the SD2 system added to the stock ECM, which has a lot more power than you may be aware of. Powerlogger's own co-processor which adds it's own level of processing power, etc.
The SD2 has a lot more features that you may be aware of!! such as individual cylinder fueling.
Full tables for TAF, VE, Spark, boost compensation for tps or rpm or alky content, spark compensation vs timing, air temp compensation, coolant temp comp., a number of injector offset tables,
And last but not least a complete FLEX FUEL setup with tables to handle all the blending via the available E85 sensors available, with all the needed tables to act upon the data coming from the the flex fuel sensor.

I could go on and on about all the other neat features it has, but that's been addressed in many other threads.

 

[HighPSI]

Those features all appear to be available in the XFI. Back to the OP, what safety features does it have that the XFI does not. As I mentioned earlier, I am not up on the new chip stuff with all the add on boxes.