Hard starting 1st time, then easy ??!!

[Ken Cunningham]

My car just started doing this, and I'd like to know if anyone thinks this is a symptom of something bad. The car will crank and crank and crank without catching. Then if I release the key back to 'on' and try again, it will start right up. This is with the Thrasher anti-theft, but it starts the 2nd time w/o even resetting the anti-theft sequence, so I don't think it can be related to any of that. I just replaced my starter motor last week after it died on a very hot day in El Cajon. But this weird start problem existed before the starter swap, and is still with me after. Does it about every 3 times out of 4. Most every time when cold, sometimes when warm. TIA . . .

 

[Ken Cunningham]

Still does it. Crank sensor? Cam sensor? Ignition wires, plugs, module? Car otherwise seems to run fine.

 

[azgn]

change the chip before you do anything else

 

[Chris Taylor]

A weak check ball valve in the fuel pump can cause this problem. Also weak injectors.

 

[T-six]

we just had the same problem with my brothers car and it turned out to be the computer.

 

[Ken Cunningham]

Found It!

Thanks for help; good tips, all.

I found my problem today and thought that I'd share it for posterity: it may help someone else down the line.

Fuel pump relay. I made sure to turn off my radio and a/c fan while turning the key on. Sure enough, about every other time I could not hear the fuel pump cycle. I removed the relay and bench tested it and it clicked on each time I applied a full 12vdc. But I know that sometimes the connections can get old and corroded so the relay doesn't get a good 12 volts. So for now I just sprayed the relay contacts and the connector wires with an alcohol spray called "Voltz" and scraped the relay contacts with an xacto knife until they were bright again. So far, so good. But I will be keeping my 'ear' on it to see if it continues.

 

[GNVenom]

Hard starting is a way of life for our GN's. But I'm working on a solution...
It's right around the corner, prototype stage and looks tremendously promising.
The device will be called QuickStart module. It attaches between the cam sensor and the cam sensor connector, takes 31 seconds to install. Here is how it operates:

http://www.installationinstructions.com/caspers/102076.pdf

It is in the early stage of prototype but I figured because the question came up, I'd let the cat out of the bag. The way it works is to attempt to injecto a false signal into the cam circuit to speed up the spark and fuel initiate routine in the CCCI module. AND, it serves two purposes; one, to get the engine started quicker PLUS it will allow you to start your car WITHOUT a cam sensor, or with a defective sensor. It has an LED that blinks to show you that the ignition system is powered up (no LED, blown fuse). Anyway, it is a few weeks away from full-blown production and I am looking for about five or six of you guys that drive your GN every day, to test the item and report back your comments - beta testers. First six emails to me with addresses will get the first modules off the assembly line.
Every year at the Nat's I get you folks asking "what new products do you have, John?" Well, here's a start. Hopefully it'll make your GN start just like the 3800 GM engines.
Hope to hear from some of you guys that drive your cars every day.
-John Spina
http://www.casperselectronics.com

 

[GNVenom]

Just another angle here, I need to explain:

The problem is because of the basic design in our CCCI ignition system. Our cars won't start unless 1) there is enough fuel pressure in the fuel rail; 2)the CAM sensor rotates into the interrupted window. The spark and fuel injection won't initiate until the cam sensor goes thru its cycle...which could take as much as TWO complete revolutions of the crank. This is why they tend to take a lot of cranking to get the engine started. The 3800's don't have this problem because they initiate the spark and fuel almost instantly (18x crank sensor along with a 3x sensor). The QS module attempts to force the initiation cycle for spark instantly upon cranking, causing a spark and fuel cycle (albeit out of sync) enough to overcome the lengthy crank cycle. Soooo, we'll see if it does the trick.
Regards,
John Spina
http://www.casperselectronics.com