Help with ceramic flooring questions

[Renthorin]

I am getting ready to redo my 9’x12’ kitchen floor and I am going to put down 12"x12" ceramic or porcelain tiles.

I will be putting 1/4" cement backer board over the existing plywood (I think it is 5/8 thick but not sure).

Here are my questions if anyone has ever done this before or is in the construction biz:

1) The instructions say to use mortar between the cement board and the plywood...and to screw it down with a LOT of screws. Do I have to “glue” the cement board down or will the screws do the job? If I glue it down do I need to use screws too? A Lot of screws?

2) says to stagger the seams – cut the cement board into a lot of pieces so they do not all have the same seam line. Keep the seams of the cement board away from the seams of the plywood. I agree with keeping the cement board from mirroring the seams of the plywood but do I need to stagger the seams of the cement board?

3) Does cement board need to be predrilled for the screws or can I just go through it? It looks like it might crack but I have no experience.

4) Says to make sure the plywood floor is at LEAST 5/8” thick. Mine is at most 5/8” thick as far as I can tell but doubt it is much more. House was built in 77 but I have no idea how thick it really is. Does it matter that much? I don’t want to end up in the basement ;-)

5) pre-mixed mortar or mix it myself?

Thanks for any suggestions, comments, experiences…etc…that you can offer.

 

[ITSAV6]

.....

Do not cut the backer board into lots of pieces! Just make sure the seams don't lay on top of each other. If the plywood runs north/south run the backer east/west.
Use the premix mortar,lots easier. Use a thin layer of it. Dry wall screws would work well and prob won't have to predrill but I would try it first to be sure. Place screws 4-6" apart in rows ever foot.

 

[Fast231]

The 5/8 minimum sub floor is so the floor will not flex and cause you to crack any tiles. 5/8 should be good, just dont jump on the floor (Like changing a light bulb and jumping down off the counters)

 

[Renthorin]

thanks for the replies I had hoped to hear that I don't have to cut the backer board into a million different shapes to keep seams staggered!

So I clean the floor.....put on some mortar.... lay the backer board....screw it down. How long do I wait before putting down tiles?

Do I use the same mortar for the tiles that I used on the plywood?

How long do I wait for the tiles to dry before grouting?

with 12x12 tiles I think I will use a grout bag for the seams between tiles. Anyone use one of those? Good idea?

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

I am getting ready to redo my 9’x12’ kitchen floor and I am going to put down 12"x12" ceramic or porcelain tiles.
1) The instructions say to use mortar between the cement board and the plywood...and to screw it down with a LOT of screws. Do I have to “glue” the cement board down or will the screws do the job? If I glue it down do I need to use screws too? A Lot of screws?

2) says to stagger the seams – cut the cement board into a lot of pieces so they do not all have the same seam line. Keep the seams of the cement board away from the seams of the plywood. I agree with keeping the cement board from mirroring the seams of the plywood but do I need to stagger the seams of the cement board?

3) Does cement board need to be predrilled for the screws or can I just go through it? It looks like it might crack but I have no experience.

4) Says to make sure the plywood floor is at LEAST 5/8” thick. Mine is at most 5/8” thick as far as I can tell but doubt it is much more. House was built in 77 but I have no idea how thick it really is. Does it matter that much? I don’t want to end up in the basement ;-)

5) pre-mixed mortar or mix it myself?

Thanks for any suggestions, comments, experiences…etc…that you can offer.

1) Yep - do both - You dont need a whole lot of mastic - when i did mine i think i used 1/4"x1/4" trowel and yes use alot of screws- space them 6 - 8" apart. They sell special cement board screws that come with square bit - worked great - no predrilling.
2) Yeah - i would just make sure seams of plywood dont line up with cement board seams... just common sense - nothin special
3) See 1
4) you should be fine... if in doubt call a local flooring or tile shop and ask
5) I used the stuff you mix yourself but that was just me... I'm sure the premix is fine and probably less messy

i'll try in dig up some pics from my bathroom project

 

[TexasT]

just to reiterate

your results depend on the subfloor not flexing. With flex comes cracking. Nothing like doing it twice.

Lots of screws no predrilling for me. You do need a good driver. I used a Milwaukee hole shooter and driver bits(Several as they tended to 'cam' out, just change them) I put the screws in about one per 4-6 square inches or so(the backer board I used had little marks where they manufacturer wanted the fasteners I guess). Also used ring shank nails on another project and these seemed to work well as I shot them from a framing nailer and this went much faster than the screws. Your call

As far as drying time, I let the initial lay dry a week (Five work days) as the next free time I had was the next weekend. You might get by with less time but I also used this time to recooperate and get the sore back ready to be on my knees again for fun.

Good knee pads are a must. I like the Irwin gel ones I bought (about $20). Well worth it but only you know what is comfortable for you. I tried several kinds and brands before I settled with these.

Follow the directions on the materials you use. I also recommend some type of mixing apparatus for a drill and a good five gallon bucket. Be sure your drill is up to the task. Also get good trowels and clean them well after use then spray them down with wd40 or something so they don't rust. Get a good float for the grout and clean it well after use. I hate using substandard equipment so the best usually lasts a lifetime if cared for properly and you only have to buy it once.

Good Luck

Rich

 

[XLR8]

I used special screws for the cement board - no need to pre-drill. I put the backer board down in the evening, went to bed and laid the tile the next day. Buy the little spacers to help keep the tiles even amd pull them out before the thin-set dries. For the grout I just mixed it and applied it with a float - the bag seemed like it would be time consuming. I forget how long you have to wait to grout.

 

[DonnieShort]

I am getting ready to redo my 9’x12’ kitchen floor and I am going to put down 12"x12" ceramic or porcelain tiles.

I will be putting 1/4" cement backer board over the existing plywood (I think it is 5/8 thick but not sure).

Here are my questions if anyone has ever done this before or is in the construction biz:

1) The instructions say to use mortar between the cement board and the plywood...and to screw it down with a LOT of screws. Do I have to “glue” the cement board down or will the screws do the job? If I glue it down do I need to use screws too? A Lot of screws?

2) says to stagger the seams – cut the cement board into a lot of pieces so they do not all have the same seam line. Keep the seams of the cement board away from the seams of the plywood. I agree with keeping the cement board from mirroring the seams of the plywood but do I need to stagger the seams of the cement board?

3) Does cement board need to be predrilled for the screws or can I just go through it? It looks like it might crack but I have no experience.

4) Says to make sure the plywood floor is at LEAST 5/8” thick. Mine is at most 5/8” thick as far as I can tell but doubt it is much more. House was built in 77 but I have no idea how thick it really is. Does it matter that much? I don’t want to end up in the basement ;-)

5) pre-mixed mortar or mix it myself?

Thanks for any suggestions, comments, experiences…etc…that you can offer.

I do this for a living so here you go:

1) No need to mortar or glue the backer board to the floor, the screws will be fine. Screw it down like this. In the seams or joints of the boards put a screw every 2" and stagger them accordingly with the adjacent board. In the field of the board put screws 4" apart throught the board.

2) Yes, by all means stagger them and if it requires cutting some boards to do it, do it and equally as important keep the seams away from the subfloor joints.

3) No pre-drilling is required, just make sure you use a heavy duty type screw so the head won't snap off

4) Most homes are built with a ¾" subfloor, if you have 5/8ths it will be fine

5) If you mean the tile glue or thin set either one you feel comfortable working with. For the grout I prefer the mixable, that way you can do up a little at a time till you get the hang of doing it and you won't waste as much.

This isn't too hard to do, the backer board is the easy part. When you chalk out your square line for your starting point, make sure your wall is square or you'll be doomed from the get go.

 

[Renthorin]

Thanks again for all who are responding

Next question: Ceramic tiles or Porcelean?

The Lowes people (who are not convincing me) say Porcelean is better and stronger than ceramic. But it also seems to be more expensive.

Thoughts on which one? Does one hold up better to scratching? We have dogs and metal food bowls that will be the heaviest use of the tiles.

 

[TexasT]

Ceramic

I've never done porcelain so I'd go with ceramic.

Also do you have a way to cut the tiles?
My dad bought a nifty wet saw so I tend to borrow it. I'd recommend renting one but I'm not sure what they cost.

Rich

 

[vintageracer]

I have used LOT'S of porcelien tile. I like it as it is the toughest tile out there. If you do drop something and chip the tile the color is still all throughout the tile.

Make sure you use "acrylic" mortor and grout if you use porcelien tile. This is recommended by the manufacturers of porcelien tile. I am fortunate that Crossville Tile, the largest manufacturer of porcelien tile in the US is located here in Tennessee. They have 2 outlet stores with discontinued and seconds. I have always used the seconds. Generally $1.00-$1.50/foot for seconds. Always looks GREAT and looks superb for years to come. I did the garage at my old home!