Help with future fuel line replacement

[Bruce Urie]

Say, fellas, I'm asking for some advice. I bought a stainless steel fuel line set (three pieces) from Poston's recently. It's the line running from the tank, to the filter, to the front of the car. ('87 Grand National) My late Dad, sigh , he drove it in all kinds of weather, so the lines are rusted pretty bad. Can't even get the old filter off and don't want to twist the line. Soon, but I don't know when (too much other stuff to do, too little time, I'm married, getting too old, the usual excuses for procrastination here ) I want to replace the old fuel line with this stainless set. I've read lots of advice here on this forum, but would just like your expert opinion on replacing this line. I know I have to drop the tank, but is this Grand National the one that has the fuel line holders on the frame that has the sheet metal screws that has to be drilled out from the underside to release the line? Can you tell me where are these holders located on the frame? Can I replace the rear line from the filter to the tank without lifting the body off and sliding the new one up through and to the tank? And one more thing, does the filter require o-rings for the new stainless fittings? How about o-rings at the front connection just by the engine? Any o-rings used here? What size are all of them if I do need them? Soon, I'll get around to doing all of this, but I'd love to have you guys advice on this so I can "do it right the first time " I'd sure appreciate all of your suggestions and opinions on this matter, as you've help me tremendously in the past here on this forum.:wink:
Thanks.
And most important of all at this time: please drive safe on the road this Thanksgiving. Stay alive.
I wish all of you here a real nice and happy Thanksgiving. Cherish your family and friends. But, be careful driving your fast Turbos. You want to get old like I am.:biggrin:

Bruce '87 Grand National

 

[Aztlanahauc]

No o-rings on the fuel filter or where they connect to the fuel rail. To replace the fuel lines and put the new ones in the stock location you will need to lift the body of the frame atleast on the drivers side.

 

[chopped39]

You do not have to lift body to replace line .the rear line goes from filter across frame to rubber lines .It does not fall out . You will have to mess with it to get it out. the front of line goes through frame to fitting on rubber hose that connects to rail. I would replace all orings. the big problem is if fuel line is rusted the holder that clamps line to frame also holds brake line . So treat it like a newborn baby. when you look under car you will see the clamps that hold it. good luck

 

[A2000RICH]

Say, fellas, I'm asking for some advice. I bought a stainless steel fuel line set (three pieces) from Poston's recently. It's the line running from the tank, to the filter, to the front of the car. ('87 Grand National) My late Dad, sigh , he drove it in all kinds of weather, so the lines are rusted pretty bad. Can't even get the old filter off and don't want to twist the line. Soon, but I don't know when (too much other stuff to do, too little time, I'm married, getting too old, the usual excuses for procrastination here ) I want to replace the old fuel line with this stainless set. I've read lots of advice here on this forum, but would just like your expert opinion on replacing this line. I know I have to drop the tank, but is this Grand National the one that has the fuel line holders on the frame that has the sheet metal screws that has to be drilled out from the underside to release the line? Can you tell me where are these holders located on the frame? Can I replace the rear line from the filter to the tank without lifting the body off and sliding the new one up through and to the tank? And one more thing, does the filter require o-rings for the new stainless fittings? How about o-rings at the front connection just by the engine? Any o-rings used here? What size are all of them if I do need them? Soon, I'll get around to doing all of this, but I'd love to have you guys advice on this so I can "do it right the first time " I'd sure appreciate all of your suggestions and opinions on this matter, as you've help me tremendously in the past here on this forum.:wink:
Thanks.
And most important of all at this time: please drive safe on the road this Thanksgiving. Stay alive.
I wish all of you here a real nice and happy Thanksgiving. Cherish your family and friends. But, be careful driving your fast Turbos. You want to get old like I am.:biggrin:

Bruce '87 Grand National

bruce-----sorry to say but thats a tough job------you really need to lift the body from the frame and yes there are "o" rings at the short flex line connections (supply and return) at the frame near the engine and at the fuel rail inlet and exit------------a word of warning------if the fuel lines are so rusted that they are that bad, you can almost take for granted that the frame bolts are also rusted and will give you a fit when you try to remove them------and if they break or strip you really got a major job----------if it were me i would replace those lines with flex/braided lines until at such time i was going to do a "frame off " restore------i've done both------frame off for restorations with orig lines and rusted "northern" drivers with the flex solution...................RC

 

[salvageV6]

Cut the fuel filter out with about 2" of line on each fitting, and get two repair fuel line fittings for GM fuel injected cars.

They come with the fuel fitting and a short length of 3/8" tube on them, just like tranny line repair kits.

Or you may find once you have cut the filter out you can really soak them better with PB BLaster and then get them off the filter with it in a vice and clean them up and use them as they are.

Obviously you need to clean and neverseize the tube part where hacksawed and a couple of threads no matter what fitting you get.

Then just couple it back in there with short lengths of fuel injected rated rubber hose.

You can also buy a filter with one end already in 3/8" tube out of it too. Look on the shelves at Pep Boys for that. You might be able to get a good flowing one with both ends 3/8" tube but I never looked for that type.

Lots of ways to make the repair.

 

[boost jnky]

i had the same problem, mine was not as severe as what you have. the rear lines are what went on mine, anyway i took and run an 8 an line to my fuel filter and was able to run my hard lines the rest of the way, and i run a 6 an on the return. most any hydrolic place that sells lines and fitings will have the small o rings that you need just take one of the old ones in and they can match it up for you. hope this helps you out as i can relate with you.

 

[SloGN]

The fuel line that runs from the fuel filter back to the tank curves up and over the rear drivers side coil spring mount then it proceeds to run around the top frame rail over to the pass side where it connects to the rubber lines from the tank assembly. there are 2 13mm bolts that hold the clamps down on the top of the frame as it runs from left to right. you will need to get a stubby wrench and have lots of patience when removing those 2 bolts because the body is very close to those bolts. there is also one more clamp and bolt not very far from the fuel filter as it starts up and over the coil spring mount. from the fuel filter forward is easy to get too compared to rear section...

Also just remeber that this is high pressure lines so be sure to get high pressure fuel injection hose! do it once do it right

This is a pain in the a$$ line to remove. i just had to remove mine sunday evening due to me drilling/nicking a hole in mine while installing a tinman rear seat brace.

HTH

Pat Broughton

Jason how's the gn coming? a bunch of us is going down to the rock this coming sat. ride on down if the wife will let you out of the house

 

[A2000RICH]

Say, fellas, I'm asking for some advice. I bought a stainless steel fuel line set (three pieces) from Poston's recently. It's the line running from the tank, to the filter, to the front of the car. ('87 Grand National) My late Dad, sigh , he drove it in all kinds of weather, so the lines are rusted pretty bad. Can't even get the old filter off and don't want to twist the line. Soon, but I don't know when (too much other stuff to do, too little time, I'm married, getting too old, the usual excuses for procrastination here ) I want to replace the old fuel line with this stainless set. I've read lots of advice here on this forum, but would just like your expert opinion on replacing this line. I know I have to drop the tank, but is this Grand National the one that has the fuel line holders on the frame that has the sheet metal screws that has to be drilled out from the underside to release the line? Can you tell me where are these holders located on the frame? Can I replace the rear line from the filter to the tank without lifting the body off and sliding the new one up through and to the tank? And one more thing, does the filter require o-rings for the new stainless fittings? How about o-rings at the front connection just by the engine? Any o-rings used here? What size are all of them if I do need them? Soon, I'll get around to doing all of this, but I'd love to have you guys advice on this so I can "do it right the first time " I'd sure appreciate all of your suggestions and opinions on this matter, as you've help me tremendously in the past here on this forum.:wink:
Thanks.
And most important of all at this time: please drive safe on the road this Thanksgiving. Stay alive.
I wish all of you here a real nice and happy Thanksgiving. Cherish your family and friends. But, be careful driving your fast Turbos. You want to get old like I am.:biggrin:

Bruce '87 Grand National

bruce---------if you feel it would be of help i have a complete set of detailed pictures of a frame without a body that shows the fuel lines and every connection and attachment point--------let me know if you feel it would be any benefit.........RC

 

[83ttypecooled]

Hi,
I have been through this with another car, and can tell you that the return line is also bad. You have a few choices.Replace the lines, major pita, Carefully repair the problem, or switch to hose.I have 60k miles on a hose conversion on my 86 firebird,never had a problem.I used Gates and Goodyear fuel injection hose, they have plastic liner in them, and are pretty tough. The stuff is pretty pricey, at over $5 per foot,but I found it a lot easier to go that way rather than replace the lines with hard stuff. For a daily driver, I think this works.By the way, brake lines are probably in similar condition, and you can't use hose for those. Good luck with your troubles!

 

[Bruce Urie]

Fuel lines

Hi,
I have been through this with another car, and can tell you that the return line is also bad. You have a few choices.Replace the lines, major pita, Carefully repair the problem, or switch to hose.I have 60k miles on a hose conversion on my 86 firebird,never had a problem.I used Gates and Goodyear fuel injection hose, they have plastic liner in them, and are pretty tough. The stuff is pretty pricey, at over $5 per foot,but I found it a lot easier to go that way rather than replace the lines with hard stuff. For a daily driver, I think this works.By the way, brake lines are probably in similar condition, and you can't use hose for those. Good luck with your troubles!

Thanks for your suggestion here. I'll consider this approach. I checked the brake lines...believe it or not, they are OK. I did replace the ones from the frame to the caliper in front, but, amazingly the rears and rest of the lines are not corroded. Cant' understand why not. I was considering braided #6 fuel injection lines...real expensive, but... I might try the others approach and just try to replace the fuel line with the stainless steel lines...I've already purchased them. But I sure appreciate your information here. I now know, how some things on our fantastic Grand Nationals/Turbo Regals can be a ROYAL pita ...but, I love the car, it was my late Dad's, it's how I hold on to his memory, and now I can work on it without feeling so sad/broken up, etc...I just think how fortunate I am that my Dad loved me enough to give me his "too fast for him" Grand National. Man, I wouldn't part with that GN for anything...means so much to me now. I'm now getting back into fixing things on it so I can go out and just drive the Torque Thrusts off of it! I just can't wait! Jeez...I'm going crazy waiting!!! Lots of work to it still to be done...lots more questions I'll probably ask you guys.
I'm also so fortunate to have all of you knowledgeable guys here to fill me in with answers to all of my questions on the best way to do things on it. You all... are a real nice, great bunch of guys. I just can't thank you all enough.


Bruce '87 Grand National

Bruce

 

[Bruce Urie]

frame/fuel line pictures

bruce---------if you feel it would be of help i have a complete set of detailed pictures of a frame without a body that shows the fuel lines and every connection and attachment point--------let me know if you feel it would be any benefit.........RC

ABSOLUTELY, RC, if that wouldn't be a problem...I'd love to see them! That would help me greatly. How would you send them? On this forum, my email address, snail mail, UPS? Let me know, please! And thank you for this! I could use the help via some photos. From the bottom view of my '87, it looks like a royal pain, but I've done lots of royal pain jobs in my life...I give it time, patience, slow, methodical, pinpoint perspective, move slowly, scream, holler, throw some wrenches, then go to the arms of my beloved wife, crying and swearing while she bandages up all my cut knuckles, split fingernails, broken wrist bones, wipes off all the rear main seal oil that dripped on my face, eyes, ears, mouth, etc. telling me,"there, there...there, there, Bruce" patting my back...wondering why us guys go through so much mechanical crap with their cars all the time. Then she hands me a nice cold beer, a few bandages and sends me out into the garage for the 2nd, 3rd round with it. Then I start all over again. This time after a cool, cold beer:tongue:. Please send pictures, RC. Great idea. What a nice guy here.

Bruce '87 Grand National

 

[A2000RICH]

ABSOLUTELY, RC, if that wouldn't be a problem...I'd love to see them! That would help me greatly. How would you send them? On this forum, my email address, snail mail, UPS? Let me know, please! And thank you for this! I could use the help via some photos. From the bottom view of my '87, it looks like a royal pain, but I've done lots of royal pain jobs in my life...I give it time, patience, slow, methodical, pinpoint perspective, move slowly, scream, holler, throw some wrenches, then go to the arms of my beloved wife, crying and swearing while she bandages up all my cut knuckles, split fingernails, broken wrist bones, wipes off all the rear main seal oil that dripped on my face, eyes, ears, mouth, etc. telling me,"there, there...there, there, Bruce" patting my back...wondering why us guys go through so much mechanical crap with their cars all the time. Then she hands me a nice cold beer, a few bandages and sends me out into the garage for the 2nd, 3rd round with it. Then I start all over again. This time after a cool, cold beer:tongue:. Please send pictures, RC. Great idea. What a nice guy here.

Bruce '87 Grand National

catch me at my shop cause thats where the pics are-----i need to be reminded of everything-----i am there most weekends and evenings--------336-570-0341------try till you get me cause if i'm testing an engine or dynoing a car i might not be able to hear the phone------if you get a machine DO NOT leave a message cause i dont' ever listen to them.............RC

 

[SGRIM]

It is great to have Mr. Clark give tech help:biggrin:

THANKS!

 

[S10xGN]

I found this write-up I did from back I actually has a GN (Jan 2000):

Changing out the main fuel line from filter to front cross-member (the 3/8" steel fuel pipe)

• First, do you REALLY need to do this? On my car a "previous owner" decided he preferred rubber hose over steel pipe, so YES, mine needed replacement - steel pipe is much safer than rubber fuel hose!
  
  
• Purchase the proper fuel pipe from a reliable source (I got mine from Classic Tube for ~ $60) Remove it from the shipping carton and straighten it out (the large bend in the middle should be as straight as possible).
  
  
• Drive the car to where you are prepared to work on it - OUTDOORS!
  
  
• Tools needed: floor jack, creeper, 2 jack stands or ramps, shop rags, 5/8" open end, 19mm open end, adjustable wrench, small container (for the environmentally friendly ;>) ). NOTE: I do have a non-stock (Baldwin) filter, so your wrench sizes may differ.
  
  
• Pull the fuel pump wiring harness (or relay), and run the engine until it stalls, to relieve fuel pressure.
  
  
• Jack up the left side of car as high as you can, make sure to put 2 jack stands under frame rail.
  
  
• Using the proper wrenches (5/8" & ??? - may be 20mm, but I didn't have one), remove forward connection at the fuel filter (located in front of left rear tire). CAREFUL! some fuel will drain out.
  
  
• Roll up to the front cross-member and locate the forward end of the fuel pipe where it comes out of the frame rail. Disconnect the hose fitting from the pipe (5/8" & 19mm), CAREFUL! lots of fuel will gush out of the rear fuel pipe fitting.
  
  
• Remove all clamps from the line (mine had 2, but there were spots for 5 or so).
  
  
• Pull the fuel pipe out from rear, you may have to bend it some to get it out (mine had several feet of hose, so it was easier to manuever out).
  
  
• Clean all grease/grime from the front cross-member where the new line will be inserted. Make a duct tape "cover" for the front end of new pipe so dirt won't get in it (the rubber "hose" vibration damper goes forward).
  
  
• Push the rubber damper as far forward as it will go (I didn't, and had to add another piece of hose, as mine was back far enough to allow the pipe to chafe against the frame).
  
  
• Start feeding the pipe through the hole in frame rail next to shift linkage - it will tend to end up between the spring coils (bad) instead of the exit hole. Here's were an extra person comes in handy - I did it myself, but I have a 78" "wingspan"...
  
  
• A small length of scrap tubing, wood, etc will fit between the spring coils and can push the fuel pipe over enough so it exits in the proper place. It should protrude 2-3" from the frame rail.
  
  
• Check the rest of the pipe for bend locations, clamp line-ups, looks, etc.
  
  
• Re-install the old O-rings (if they're good) or new ones as needed FRONT and REAR!
  
  
• The rear fitting on my car was back a tad further than the old line, causing some "interference fitment" to get the filter over the pipe, but once in place, the fittings made up fine.
  
  
• Make up both connections (tight), plug the fuel pump circuit back together to leak check the connections, jumper the power wire (for the hood light) to the socket behind the alternator (there are two, it only fits one of them) this will run the fuel pump. Run it until you no longer here air purging from the fuel rail, check for leaks, then remove the jumper.
  
  
• If you have no leaks, tighten up the fuel pipe clamps, let her down and go for a ride!

 

[Silver 'T' Top]

Cut the fuel filter out with about 2" of line on each fitting, and get two repair fuel line fittings for GM fuel injected cars.

They come with the fuel fitting and a short length of 3/8" tube on them, just like tranny line repair kits.

Or you may find once you have cut the filter out you can really soak them better with PB BLaster and then get them off the filter with it in a vice and clean them up and use them as they are.

Obviously you need to clean and neverseize the tube part where hacksawed and a couple of threads no matter what fitting you get.

Then just couple it back in there with short lengths of fuel injected rated rubber hose.

You can also buy a filter with one end already in 3/8" tube out of it too. Look on the shelves at Pep Boys for that. You might be able to get a good flowing one with both ends 3/8" tube but I never looked for that type.

Lots of ways to make the repair.

Any idea on the part number for the GM fuel line repair kit?

 

[Silver 'T' Top]

Any idea on the part number for the GM fuel line repair kit?

No one??!!

 

[salvageV6]

Try the Dorman line, 800-162 for the 12" one, 800-170 for the 4" one.

Bring a filter and a twisted off end to make sure it's the right fitting.

Many parts stores carry the Dorman line even if they don't stock every part on the shelves. I'm sure most could get it quickly for you.

I couldn't download the .pdf file from Dorman to make sure that's the exact part but it says it's the GM 3/8" tube repair kit in the descriptions I've seen.