HELP...Wont shift outta first gear!! Long.....advice needed

[turbo nasty]

this is a continuation of another thread that noone would give me any help on so maybe this one will.

Tranny is rebuilt all is well except the car will not shift out of first gear at anything other than light throttle.

Give it lil more than light and she will go to 5k and sit there for a few seconds then hit second or just go higher bounce off the rev cut and either finally shift or not at all.

Car was starting off in first gear but that went away and now it downshifts to 1st as it should.

I have had the VB out 3 times already and nothing is sticking and everything moves fine nothing bent, etc

If the TV cable is loosened it just makes all the gear shift sooner. I.E- If the throttle is applied too much it will wind out first forevere and when it finally shifts it goes to second and then right to third.
Tv cable tightened as should be then it winds the gears normally.

Trans shifted perfect before the rebuld and the only reason for the overhaul was the 2-3 slipping.

I have been told to change the whole VB with one that works.
Also to try a softer shift valve spring on teh 1-2 shift valve.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[turbo nasty]

Ttt

 

[Alky V6]

How are your line pressure readings?

 

[Night Train]

Who rebuilt it? Seems like you should talk to your rebuilder first and get his input, as I hope he knows something about tranny's.

 

[Alky V6]

Who rebuilt it? Seems like you should talk to your rebuilder first and get his input, as I hope he knows something about tranny's.

True. I was assuming this is a diy situation. So, did the tranny shop pull the VB 3 times?

 

[turbo nasty]

Thanx guys and yes it is a DIY build as I just could not swing the funds right now. A freind had some of the tools, large shop, parts washer ,etc and he builds 700s on the side helped me performed the rebuild and all is well just that pesky 1st gear shift.

PSI's are as follows

Min TV / MAX TV both around 1500rpm
p 100/ 195 ish
R 185 / 185
n 100/ 195
od 100 / 160-180
d 100 / 160-180
2 195-200 / 200 ish
1 195-200 / 200 ish both 1 and 2 psi drops for a split second then shoots back up when cable reaches max TV.

I have bruces PSI reg system in there and the above readings is with the stock rev boost valve back in there hoping that with the larger rev boost that comes with the kit was a lil too big. Causing higher psi's therefore making 1st gear shift point to be too high. All parts are FOR sure put in correctly in the psi reg.

Its only 1st gear, all others up shift fine and kickdown via manual or TV as should.

 

[turbo nasty]

Ttt

 

[Alky V6]

That's why I was curious about a pressure check. Wanted to eliminate the PR valve lineup. The min values seem high. Is that because you were opening the throttle and thus pulling the TV cable to get that 1500 rpm?

I'm going to assume that's what was going on with that. Anyway, you have a control problem. Valve body, governor, check ball locations. Before you do anything else, check the shifter adjustment to make sure all your gates are lining up right. I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with your problem. Just don't need a bad shifter adjustment messing up your diagnosing.

 

[Alky V6]

I would pull the VB and check the valve lineups to make sure you didn't incorrectly install one of them. Carefully check the checkball locations. There is one pocket in the case that looks as though it should take a checkball, but does not take a checkball. Get the book out.

 

[turbo nasty]

That's why I was curious about a pressure check. Wanted to eliminate the PR valve lineup. The min values seem high. Is that because you were opening the throttle and thus pulling the TV cable to get that 1500 rpm?

I'm going to assume that's what was going on with that. Anyway, you have a control problem. Valve body, governor, check ball locations. Before you do anything else, check the shifter adjustment to make sure all your gates are lining up right. I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with your problem. Just don't need a bad shifter adjustment messing up your diagnosing.

On the psi test the shop manual said 1k rpm for check and I went a lil higher.

I have had the VB out 3 times and the last time I went through each hole slowly with the GM shop manuals pics and made sure all was well.

Positive on the check ball locations. And the center ball (the 1-2 shift ball) was left in the VB as it hits hard enough with it in , also the Art Carr HT VB kit instructs to leave it unless I have a non L/U 9" and I dont. (the kit was in there prior to build)

As far as the shifter gate I do have to reach up and twist the column to get it into manual lo, the end of the rod coming down off the steer column is flush with the bottom of the eyelet. So i'm almost out of more adjustment, the 2 rubber oblong grommets are present on the side of the transmission that the linkage goes in.

How does one go about adjusting the gate?

 

[Alky V6]

There are actually 2 separate adjustments to consider. The first one is the shifter to manual linkage at the transmission. The second is the linkage to the column.

1) Put the shifter in neutral. Find the neutral gate in the shifter itself. Now disconnect the shifter cable at the trans linkage arm and make sure the transmission is in neutral. Now making sure that the shifter is at the neutral gate and the transmission is in neutral, reconnect the cable to the linkage arm and tighten. Go back to the shifter. Check to make sure the shifter is still at the neutral gate. If it is, now shift to OD position and find its gate. It's very likely the shifter will be resting a little forward of the OD gate. Note how far off the gate it is. Now go back under the car and loosen the cable adjustment at the arm and move the adjustment in a manner that will bring the shifter just a tad bit closer to the OD gate.

The trick here is to split that distance to the OD gate so that you end up with an equal distance to the neutral gate when in neutral and the OD gate when in OD.

2) Only do this after doing the first procedure. Adjust the rod slip adjuster going to the column so that the car only starts in neutral and park and you can easily remove the keys from the igntion when in park.

 

[turbo nasty]

Hey i really apperciate your help!

I adjusted it...
It goes to lo now via the shifter, neut and park start and reverse lights all as should be, ign sw turns off all as should be.

But unfortunately the car still has the 1-2 shift problem.

Just a lil throttle its fine and 95-99% of the time it will downshift to 1st coming to a stop every now and again it will take off in second.

If you mash the throttle enough to get it to wind to say 5k and then lift a lil it nails second and then shifts to third. The quick upshift to 3rd after the delayed 1-2 shift would be speed dictated I would think due to the vehicle speed and low throttle apply angle and the car would normally be in that gear if the trans shifted properly.

If the psi was too high wouldnt all the gears shift higher than normal?

Do you think there is a seal or clutch stack or something causing the problem deep in the case?

I have been picking Bruces brain at PTS and he is so busy and harder to get a hold of these days...he said try a softer 1-2 shift spring just to see if it affects the shift. Unfortunately I dont have one

 

[Alky V6]

Line pressure really has nothing to do with your problem. TV pressure and governore pressure are the pressures that are controlling when the shifts occur.

It sounds like the 1-2 is the only problem. If that is correct, then I strongly suggest you look at your 1-2 valve train line up again. I'm going to assume you didn't change or mix up any springs. Check for a line up problem, sticking valve, roll pins in the wrong position relative to the shift sleeves. You have a control problem!

 

[turbo nasty]

No springs changed or altered and I was very meticulous on checking all components, free movement, order, etc.

If the 1-2 valve line up is fine what would be the next step?

 

[Alky V6]

1-2 shift valvetrain lineup or governor. Not you much to go wrong with the governor.

The 1-2 shift valvetrain has 2 valve sleeves and 2 roll pins. Make sure the roll pins are going through the correct spots in both sleeves. Make sure there are no burrs in the sleeve bores and in the VB bore.

Don't know of anywhere else to point you.

 

[turbo nasty]

Glad I have a drain plug in the pan that has saved some bucks on the fluid loss.

Do you think the 1-2 valvetrain screw up would cause it to start out in second every so often as well as the delay shift?

 

[Alky V6]

I've seen a sticking TV valve or the TV cable adjusted to give too much TV pressure at idle cause a starting off in 2nd.

 

[turbo nasty]

ANybody else have a idea? Or other possibilities??

 

[Alky V6]

You need a second set of eyes on that job. You're overlooking something. Probably staring you straight in the face. BTDT.

 

[boostjunkie]

ANybody else have a idea? Or other possibilities??

Sounds like you lost the governor spring pull the pan drop the governor cover i bet the spring is gone ! Shawn