Lets say you have a car running at what you deem an optimal boost and the given ET's/mph. Would you gain anything from a WOT timing change of 2 degrees? Would you gain anything even if you did not max out your turbo but upped it just a couple degrees I have seen on mustangs and even some SBC where they would pick up some decent time with just 2-3 degrees of timing difference. Was wondering if the buick setup was just not as happy with timing? Here is an example lets say you have a car running 28psi and 20 degrees of timing at the top end. If you kept the boost the same but upped said timing to 22 or 23 degrees would you gain some mph and ET. Thanks for any insight on this fellas.
horsepower VS timing??
- Thread starter driven87
- Start date
I could be way off on this, but boost makes more power than timing. Most people who are good tuners go right to the ragged edge with their tune, so any additional timing would just lead to detonation and unhappy head gaskets. If you are already running a lot of boost and you are tuned the edge of avoiding detonation, timing wouldn't offer much more than a headache for your engine.
I'm looking forward to more scientific responses since my noggin can't offer much more than that.
I'm looking forward to more scientific responses since my noggin can't offer much more than that.
BEATAV8
The Engine Whisperer
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2002
In my experience, take boost before timing. The example you cited, a car running 28psi and 20 degrees of timing... if it could take another 2-3 degrees of timing, you would be doing better to move more air and make more power if you left the timing alone at 20 degrees and turned the boost up some more.
Depends on your turbo ofcourse.... if the turbo can't do it then it can't do it. And timing is all you got.
Depends on your turbo ofcourse.... if the turbo can't do it then it can't do it. And timing is all you got.
Not many on here have come close to the limitations of the turbos on their cars. CR and timing will go a long way to make extra power.
Silver Fox
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2003
I have an ancient "Modern Muscle" chip with something like 26 degrees of timing. That chip made a stock turbo/stock injector car very fun with only 15 pounds of boost. Instant power versus chips with lower timing.
Just a Six??
OK! Who Farted??
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
Get a TT chip & see how it helps wake it up with optional tuning paramters.
Silver Fox
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2003
Check my sig...
challengermike
Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2005
Everybody here yelled at me for putting more timming than 2-3 degreese with the chip.I thought that was odd seeing the chip you can increase alot more than 2-3.I stopped seeing performance gains by adding boost so i started upping the timming a degree at a time.But i turned it back down because everybody told me no more than 2-3.
I've learned from Otto that it's common for let's say...a car makes X power at X boost. Then after adding 3+ degrees of timing to see zero gains. So they just leave the timing back where it was. Why this happens I have no idea. Turbo? Back pressure? A/f radios? I have no clue
My current combo has the turbo pretty maxed out on boost. Last time at the track, 1.5 degrees added 1 mph. I did not go any more because I noticed a little pepper on the plugs after that run which is a sign of detonation (I don't use a knock sensor.) Like Bison said, most don't know if their timing is actually accurate. That's probably why one car may fly but another car with the same combo may fall short. I'm running an Accel DFI gen7...which is very easy to verify timing with. My offset is almost 10 degrees Not sure if that means that the stock timing was off that much or what. I do know the previous owner had a 6776 on the car with 25 psi and the car never went faster than high 11's at 110mph with the same combo the car has now minus the smaller turbo on there now and the dfi. Also not sure how to verify timing on a stock ecm car or if it's even possible.
Not sure if that means that the stock timing was off that much or what. I do know the previous owner had a 6776 on the car with 25 psi and the car never went faster than high 11's at 110mph with the same combo the car has now minus the smaller turbo on there now and the dfi. Also not sure how to verify timing on a stock ecm car or if it's even possible.There is a point where timing is no good but you wont see too many on here getting near that point
If you do what everyone else tells you will never get ahead. There was a time when everyone said you cant run over 22psi too. I just agreed and continued running 27-28 and they wondered why they got spanked.
"until it knocks"
Well, I would think most people running their cars faster than stock attempt to get the most power out of their cars before they knock. Kind of need to find out where that limit is and everyone's is different. If you have found a magic way to find that limit without ever getting the engine to begin to knock I would like to know!!!
turboc87gn
Darkside in Detroit
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2008
I always thought that when you add boost or nitrous for that matter that you backed the timing off..
usetaboost
SAY CAR RAMROD!!
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
I'm still running stock turbo. That will soon change. My car is all stock with a TT chip for stock boost, 204-214 cam, lt1trans+, hooker exhaust and 9 inch cone. 42lbers, power plate, and good wires, stock IC. I made a alky kit out of all the sh!t I had lying around (-25 WW fluid)
Running 23 lbs of boost. I upped the timing over 4* in 1/2 and over 3* in 3/4. I noticed a little difference going from eric's base timing with 23lbs to my timing adjustments. I may be able to squeeze a tiny bit more out but no sense in pushing things. I wish I could take it to the track and see what it would do. It's a fairly light car. It fluckin hauls ballz for stock
Just to make a few of you crap a little more...it's tuned off winaldl
Does anyone know what eric puts timing at in his "stocker" chips?
Running 23 lbs of boost. I upped the timing over 4* in 1/2 and over 3* in 3/4. I noticed a little difference going from eric's base timing with 23lbs to my timing adjustments. I may be able to squeeze a tiny bit more out but no sense in pushing things. I wish I could take it to the track and see what it would do. It's a fairly light car. It fluckin hauls ballz for stock
Just to make a few of you crap a little more...it's tuned off winaldl
Does anyone know what eric puts timing at in his "stocker" chips?
