How do they compare to the T-bird Super Coupe?
- Thread starter BM Computer Src
- Start date
Originally posted by SCinCA
Yeah, friend of mine with a GTP pulls 15 psi, but its cammed and has headers. Runs 12.41@115 babying it out of the hole. Not bad for a grocery getter.
What size pulley if he has cam and headers with 15 psi?
Why not get slicks and get a "good" run?
That's a great trap anyway, nice for him.
2.8 pulley
He did run with slicks but it was a new tranny and he was babying it off the line. Search for Robul on www.webrats.com. He's one of the mods.
He did run with slicks but it was a new tranny and he was babying it off the line. Search for Robul on www.webrats.com. He's one of the mods.
i got somethin for yall (or will)
i agree that the 3800 is hands down the superior engine design, but the supercharger system is its weak point. The tbird's was definately a lot better thought out and lends itself well to modding. I have had an idea for a while that will combine the strong points of both and put it into a platform that negates the disadvantages of a fwd setup. I've ran this idea past a lot of people in the past half year, but see what you guys think.
I have a 3800sc from a 97 gtp with 80,000 mi. on it sitting around waiting for a car. It's going to be the basis for my budget project from hell! I want to put some extreme boost on it, but I dont want to cough up the dough for an aftermarket ic. (they're way overpriced for the 3800). As for the supercharger, i plan to buy an m90 off a tbird, which go for $150-120 all day long on sccoa.com. I'm not just throwing away the stock sc though. I will mount the ford m90 on top of the stock sc with a custom bracket/plate. It will turn off of the outside belt (for you ford guys, the l67 has 2 serpentine belts). I will run piping from it to a front mount air to air ic (probably a large aftermarket one; a guy i know who owns a performance shop offered me a huge spearco for $250). I will then pipe the pressurized, cooled air into the inlet of the stock m90 running a stock pulley. It shouldn't pressurize it so much more as to cause Knock Retard. I would rin as much boost as possible off the initial (ford) sc so it could be intercooled. In other words, i am going to have a sequential twin supercharger system, and i believe i can accomplish it with less money than an aftermarket air to water ic for the 3800 would cost (around $1200).
I want to put the engine in a pontiac fiero with a manual tranny. The 86-88 v-6 fieros came with a pretty stout getrag 5 speed that can hold a lot of torque when equipped with an aftermarket disk and pressure plate. I would have a very light, powerful car that is well balanced with the engine weight over the rear wheels. The rwd setup would be free of the torque steer and weight transfer problems of a fwd. Now the really cool part... For daily driving, i would be able to disengage the ford sc with the flip of a switch (like they disengage when the car's in park or neutral) and run on stock boost from the stock sc and run on pump gas. That would solve one of the inherent problems of superchargers -- the relative difficulty of changing boost. assuming i ever get it to work, it would solve the weaknesses of the 3800, of fwd, and of superchargers themselves. You cant ask for much more than that! I realize this will take a lot of custom fab and time, but it will be worth it if for no other reason than to have a totally unique setup! I've ran the idea past several people i know and several other forums, but tell me what u think. I havent found any theoretical problems with the sequential sc idea, but then again ive never seen it done before.
i agree that the 3800 is hands down the superior engine design, but the supercharger system is its weak point. The tbird's was definately a lot better thought out and lends itself well to modding. I have had an idea for a while that will combine the strong points of both and put it into a platform that negates the disadvantages of a fwd setup. I've ran this idea past a lot of people in the past half year, but see what you guys think.
I have a 3800sc from a 97 gtp with 80,000 mi. on it sitting around waiting for a car. It's going to be the basis for my budget project from hell! I want to put some extreme boost on it, but I dont want to cough up the dough for an aftermarket ic. (they're way overpriced for the 3800). As for the supercharger, i plan to buy an m90 off a tbird, which go for $150-120 all day long on sccoa.com. I'm not just throwing away the stock sc though. I will mount the ford m90 on top of the stock sc with a custom bracket/plate. It will turn off of the outside belt (for you ford guys, the l67 has 2 serpentine belts). I will run piping from it to a front mount air to air ic (probably a large aftermarket one; a guy i know who owns a performance shop offered me a huge spearco for $250). I will then pipe the pressurized, cooled air into the inlet of the stock m90 running a stock pulley. It shouldn't pressurize it so much more as to cause Knock Retard. I would rin as much boost as possible off the initial (ford) sc so it could be intercooled. In other words, i am going to have a sequential twin supercharger system, and i believe i can accomplish it with less money than an aftermarket air to water ic for the 3800 would cost (around $1200).
I want to put the engine in a pontiac fiero with a manual tranny. The 86-88 v-6 fieros came with a pretty stout getrag 5 speed that can hold a lot of torque when equipped with an aftermarket disk and pressure plate. I would have a very light, powerful car that is well balanced with the engine weight over the rear wheels. The rwd setup would be free of the torque steer and weight transfer problems of a fwd. Now the really cool part... For daily driving, i would be able to disengage the ford sc with the flip of a switch (like they disengage when the car's in park or neutral) and run on stock boost from the stock sc and run on pump gas. That would solve one of the inherent problems of superchargers -- the relative difficulty of changing boost. assuming i ever get it to work, it would solve the weaknesses of the 3800, of fwd, and of superchargers themselves. You cant ask for much more than that! I realize this will take a lot of custom fab and time, but it will be worth it if for no other reason than to have a totally unique setup! I've ran the idea past several people i know and several other forums, but tell me what u think. I havent found any theoretical problems with the sequential sc idea, but then again ive never seen it done before.
BM Computer Src
New Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
wow.. what did I start?
Well just an update, its been about a year since I started this thread. I have a 96 T-bird 4.6L sport and a 2001 Buick GS supercharged 3.8L.
Still want a supercoupe to drive daily, the 4.6L lacks torque, seriously. I cant even turbocharge it because the stock bottom is so freakin weak...
Bob
Well just an update, its been about a year since I started this thread. I have a 96 T-bird 4.6L sport and a 2001 Buick GS supercharged 3.8L.
Still want a supercoupe to drive daily, the 4.6L lacks torque, seriously. I cant even turbocharge it because the stock bottom is so freakin weak...
Bob
Scott Long
140+ mph club
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
TryMy231S,
Instead of manually retarding timing and running 15 psi why not leave the timing alone and run 10 psi, same power level more than likely since timing isn't retarded, maybe more power since intake air temp will be lower cuz at 15 psi the M90 cranks some heat. Or just intercool that thing and leave the timing alone and run 15 psi for a serious increase in power. Or get an alky kit. Ideally an alky kit and an IC but its your car retard the timing and hurt the performance if you want. Personally I'd run full timing at lower boost and keep the intake air charge temps down but what do I know I drive a ford.
Instead of manually retarding timing and running 15 psi why not leave the timing alone and run 10 psi, same power level more than likely since timing isn't retarded, maybe more power since intake air temp will be lower cuz at 15 psi the M90 cranks some heat. Or just intercool that thing and leave the timing alone and run 15 psi for a serious increase in power. Or get an alky kit. Ideally an alky kit and an IC but its your car retard the timing and hurt the performance if you want. Personally I'd run full timing at lower boost and keep the intake air charge temps down but what do I know I drive a ford.
I'm working on an alky kit now. I want to use my windshield washer resevoir as the bottle this way I'll know the alky is low on my DIC (digital information center people, get your heads out of the gutter). I think I'm going to have to mount the pump in the fender somehow; that's the only thing I haven't figured out (not much time with a six month old).
I can't change pulleys easily cause I got this pulley before they even offered the DUB.
Right now my Buick is more important anyway.
I can't change pulleys easily cause I got this pulley before they even offered the DUB.
Right now my Buick is more important anyway.
Scott Long
140+ mph club
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
I never thought about using the washer tank for the alcohol resovoir. I also have a warning light when its low but someone removed the resovoir before I bought this car so I'd have to track one down hopefully with the sensor in it. At least with the connector unplugged it never lights up the low warning light.
I just figured keeping the boost lower would be less heat and you could keep the timing advanced and then you wouldn't get as much detonation or knock retard and it might actually make more power.
I just figured keeping the boost lower would be less heat and you could keep the timing advanced and then you wouldn't get as much detonation or knock retard and it might actually make more power.
Scott Long
140+ mph club
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
Interesting.
I run a 2.8" pulley on my car and see around 15 psi from about 3000 rpm + and easily see 10-12 psi below 3000 rpm. It feels faster but I haven't dyno'd or taken it to the track. I'm using a stock intercooler and on a hot day you can feel the car is noticeably slower after about 20 minutes of driving. To see the full advantage of this I need a larger intercooler. I have been told I should have went with the 3" pulley instead since it would give more boost but the timing wouldn't get retarded. Oh well I plan to upgrade the IC soon so then I will really feel the gain.
I run a 2.8" pulley on my car and see around 15 psi from about 3000 rpm + and easily see 10-12 psi below 3000 rpm. It feels faster but I haven't dyno'd or taken it to the track. I'm using a stock intercooler and on a hot day you can feel the car is noticeably slower after about 20 minutes of driving. To see the full advantage of this I need a larger intercooler. I have been told I should have went with the 3" pulley instead since it would give more boost but the timing wouldn't get retarded. Oh well I plan to upgrade the IC soon so then I will really feel the gain.
Scott Long
140+ mph club
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2001
I have thought about adding a hi-flow 8" or 10" fan onto the intercooler. I'm sure it'll be better than nothing. Ideally I'd like to increase the surface area of the ic so more air will flow over it, but for now I guess a fan would help pull more air through it especially at idle or low speed when there isn't much air flow.
I had a supercoupe t-bird. They are not a hot rodders car. If you keep them stock they are fun, lots of low end torque. Hoppping them up is very expensive, and there are alot of gimmick bolt-ons that do nothing. The manual tranny is a Mazda truck tranny with a lot of quirks. You want the auto if you are going to mod the car as there are no upgrades to the mazda 5 speed. The turbocoupe t-birds were much better cars, as were the GN's
Similar threads
