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How far have you pushed stock rods and crank ?

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434nova

Active Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Messages
927
Looking to see either hp #s or et. On stock crank and rods. I start, my car made 560 rwhp on stock crank and stock rods with arp bolts. Can this stuff live at 600 + rwhp for a while or is it a bomb ?
 
with my 86 stock short block (10/10 stock crank) ran mid 10s for 6 years at 23psi est 600hp running 128 trap speeds at 3500lbs on alky93..when i turned up it to reach bottom 10.0s one of OE pistons gave up (#3) . split side to side above the pin but thats all it did is split and then a hole opened in center and pushed a lot of oil out of the breathers ..nothing catastrophic and from what ive seen from mine an others the OE pistons split but to stay together
i popped another old piston in and went back to track to try out the motor.. built another motor with forged stuff and retired that stock motor to my X for light duty , I split a piston while on that car too and just plopped in another and its still rolling on .
bison has made it just into the nines alky 93 after several low 10.0s and walked away that time but he also split a piston along the way in his quest for 9 second slip
bob wren tried to push the alky93 limits on stock block as well and he too split the piston when getting near 10.0s power
 
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IMO I think your playing with fire. Keep in mind these are 30 year old parts..... Some might get away with 600hp and another get away with 450hp. There is no way of knowing how fatigued your rotating assembly is. It does sound good to say I ran xxx with stock stuff until it gives up the ghost and destroys everything inside the motor. For piece of mind, these forged rotating assemblies now a days are pretty affordable, especially if you hurt your current build and have to start from scratch. Another option you have is to sell your current shortblock while its still running well and buy a forged shortblock in the for sale section for half the cost to do it yourself. They are always floating around.
 
So are the OE pistons the weak link in the rotating assembly ? I'm at about the same power level right now with forged pistons but with stock rods & crank .
 
some have gone further on stock cranks others have been less and had cranks break
when my setup was being pushed to mid 10s forged just wasnt a feasible option at the time (was damn expensive)
when i cracked the piston i put the motor back together ran a 128 and pulled it back out .. the forged assemblies were becoming easily available and the cost wasnt terrible compared to reworking the stock stuff so thats the route i took ..running through your own oil/antifreeze at the track isnt something you ever want to do
 
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Can this stuff live at 600 + rwhp for a while or is it a bomb ?
My first 109 was a Ruggles. The 600HP number is exactly what he told me...600 for a while. Either you will pull the main webs out, or rattle the main saddles so much, they will eat the brgs.
 
9.86@137 on a stock short block. It ran high 10s for years, and 4 passes from 10.3 to 9.8. It is not a level I would want to keep running it at.
 
I made 502whp on the stock crank, and I'm currently pulling the engine apart to move to a forged bottom end. Everything is still in great shape, but I'm power hungry and didn't want to push my luck.
 
Gabby Rojas low 9's. I've been high 9's around 30psi manifold with a 62 compressor. Had it at 34-35psi lately with the MFS 67. It will just so slightly squeak a little compression in the cooling system at this level. It's really fast for a stock short block. 80-125mph in about 3.5 seconds. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it trapped 143+mph on the current configuration on 93/alky. I can't get enough timing out of it to make more power with only head bolts holding the heads down. Cam isn't ideal for cylinder pressure control either. It's got several minutes of combined time of WOT at this level. Same shortblock that's been in the car for years with no changes. I wouldn't rec pushing the stock rotating group this hard. I don't even rec pushing anything past 125mph unless it's got closed loop operation and other safeguards built in and is competently tuned no matter what rotating group is used . Stock Pistons will eventually fail if rattled at sub 10.50 power whether it shows knock retard or not. 93/alky tuning isn't for most. Once you realize the mass flow, cylinder fill, CR, timing relationship you begin to really smarten up with the tuning. I cracked Pistons years ago with race fuel and alky injection making less power. Now I run 93 octane with much less alky, a lot more manifold pressure, make a lot more power, and they don't break Pistons. Im sure it's not a coincidence after applying the same mentality to many other applications with similar results. If cylinder pressure is under control then all you need to do is continue to fill the cylinder and keep it cool long enough to make it through a full pass. Anything could break at any time


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Can this stuff live at 600 + rwhp for a while
sure it can live,there are many posts about stock shortblocks going 9/10 sec.car must have a good tune,then you will have hard parts failure.inmo having steel mains and pistons is a must but many have gone real fast without.years ago I cracked 3 pistons and cracked the block with high cylinder pressure but the car flew and lasted a long time.that stock crank is in another motor and has a lot of hard miles on it making even more power with a different approach.inmo run what you have.
 
It could live for awhile around 500whp with good tuning. I wouldn't try your luck at 600whp unless you are prepared to do a full rebuild or have another motor already build. Seen one make two 9 sec passes before it blew apart and a local 12sec bolt on car had a crank break in half. There's no 100% threshold for failure.
 
Like a lot of the others that posted I went mid 10's at 129-130 mph on stock crank, rods and pistons for a couple of years with no issues. My motor had steel center mains and ARP studs. It probably had 100 passes in between 10.40 and 10.80 on that shortblock and the crank was turned .020/0.20 when I put it in! This was about 12-13 years ago and I ran the car on race gas and a Red's 108. This was before wideband 02's were available like they are now so I just monitored the narrow band 02 with Directscan. My current car will be deep in the 10's this year with a stock crank and rods but it does have forged pistons and billet mains.
 
when i redid the piston i also redid the crank bearings because i did check the mains and rods and it was really obvious that the crank was flexing at low 10s powerlevel ..its not happy there ..now i wasnt running steel mains , studs or girdle but the wear i saw i cant see anything changing if i had them .
when i went forged crank i decided not to do mains or girdle or studs and the crank bearing are doing fine at mid 9s power ,but at that level the main cap strengthening with caps or girdle would help to prolong the bottom end
 
I put a motor together for a friend with two billet caps, girdle, stock crank and rods with arp bolts, .040 j & e's. With iron heads at 3500+ lbs it ran 9.70's to 9.90's for 5 years. The motor is still running today after being transplanted into his street car.
 
Looking to see either hp #s or et. On stock crank and rods. I start, my car made 560 rwhp on stock crank and stock rods with arp bolts. Can this stuff live at 600 + rwhp for a while or is it a bomb ?
IMO I think your playing with fire. Keep in mind these are 30 year old parts..... Some might get away with 600hp and another get away with 450hp. There is no way of knowing how fatigued your rotating assembly is. It does sound good to say I ran xxx with stock stuff until it gives up the ghost and destroys everything inside the motor. For piece of mind, these forged rotating assemblies now a days are pretty affordable, especially if you hurt your current build and have to start from scratch. Another option you have is to sell your current shortblock while its still running well and buy a forged shortblock in the for sale section for half the cost to do it yourself. They are always floating around.

I am going to agree with ttypewhite on this one....While I am not one to preach the virtues of all the safety equipment and what not that most of us should be running, myself included here, These days there is really no reason not to at least have a good rotating assembly.
When you can make 10.50 power all it takes is to rattle it good one time and some damage is going to happen..even if you don't see it immediately. The stock pistons hold up very well failing is usually cumulative stress over a period of time, then a good whack and she opens up.

Have not seen a lot in the way of rod failures but the stock crank is another thing. The stock block can take an amazing amount of power provided you have one that has not seen any hard detonation let alone repeated hits with the jackhammer.......The billet mains are nice but I cracked a block with the stock caps so they do not mean as much as some would think. How many sets of head gaskets has this block crank rods and pistons eaten is the question I would want an answer too If i was looking to make big power with a stock set up.

With that said I would be looking to build a good rotator assembly and a girdle if looking to go much faster than 10.90's on a regular basis, If you know for fact the engine had an easy life I could push that a bit.
You are going to spend the money one day anyways so why push it? Just to say you did maybe?

And I also have firsthand experience with what happens when pushing stock block junk too far, we were really pushing things further than we knew we should in my sons 5.0 mustang, it was making 520ish rwhp and it let go right after the 3-4 gear change at the track, The bad part was the way it blew it locked the clutch together so picture driving over your own oil and coolant with the rear wheels locked up at 90..........only by some dumbass luck and a little driving skill he did not lose the car or get hurt. We knew better but...... anyway the car stopped 3 inches from the wall when all was said and done.
Sometimes you should minimize the risks, Just something to think about.

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