Hyd Roller Cam
- Thread starter 87Gnastey
- Start date
hemi8
Goin Sideways
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2001
You can't go wrong buying a complete set-up from Weber/DLS/TA. I use a Weber system and am very happy the way the parts went together, I sent them my cam sensor for a composite material gear and my front cover to have it machined for the new set-up. If you do not buy a matched set-up and go with different parts from all over the place be careful. If you are a seasoned engine builder you will know what to look out for, if not, seriously consider buying a matched system from one Turbo Buick vendor.
My 2 cents,
Mike
My 2 cents,
Mike
prostreetdrag
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2010
Here is my 2 cents......Billet Cams are much stronger and I have found that they are more precise as far as timing goes...However I agree with everyone on buying a matched kit..Alot of big comp's pay big bucks to their engineers to design, match and dyno a complete kit for your particular application... I have used several diffrent aftermarket types and my favorite yet has been comp cams they have alot of diffrent applications to match your needs and are very affordable. I can't really speak about Cam/lifter kits that are sold by turbo Buick vendors as I have never used any of theirs. I can tell you most likely would be little more $$$ but then again most of their reaserch and development is tested strickly on buicks most of the time you get what you pay for(not always though)...Just from my exp I have never went wrong with comp cams.. The different cams I have tried in past has been Crowler,lunatti,Crane, and so far Comp cams has beat the rest as far as out of the box performace and dependabilty goes which is the only Brand I use for now...Wether it is in my daily driver or prostreet car. I have had such great luck I'm affraid to try somthing diffrent only because I know what to expect with their product....They make some specific for Nitrous use, Turbo, Street/race or whatever you need it for...Good luck with your search I hope my 2 cents helps...And that it dont confuse you on which way to go...At least everyones opinion has been the same as far as a whole kit goes,,lol
prostreetdrag
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2010
Oh yeah....As far as where to buy I would just shop around for best price if you go with comp cams...I useually only shop at jegs only because they have a retail store about 5 mins from my house and I can get it the same day and if its not in stock their warehouse is only about 30 mins from my house...But they are useually pretty compairable as far as price goes some times You can get a good deal on ebay on some closeout items but finding one for your Buick you'd probably have to order online or from any local speed shop.
3.8L V-8 eater
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
Sorry to hi - jack your thread, but I'm going to be buying a roller cam kit in the very near future as well... Was thinking of Weber's kit or the kit Full throttle sells. Quite a bit of price difference and each kit is not exactely the same... Weber is right down the road so they could machine my front cover which is done for free with the purchase of the kit, but it's the more expensive one. 87Gnasty keep me posted on what you decide to go with and why. I do know without a doubt I'm done with flat tappet cams!!!
prostreetdrag
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2010
If your block requires special machining for a aftermarket cam swap...deffinatly go with a well know Turbo Buick vender before hacking up your front cover yourself or anyone else as that goes.. Buick turbo venders would know more about your motor,set-up and proper machining work. and as v-8eater said machine work most likely would be free.. But you can't go wrong with any type of roller cam compared to a flat tapppet cam.. trust me!!...BTW 3.8v-8eater I agree with you on the flat tappet cams I will never go back
hemi8
Goin Sideways
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2001
Weber's is more expensive for a good reason, from personal experiance I can say that there are things they machine that you would not know about if you just bought off-the shelf parts. The front cover has to be machined where the new nose pieces touch the cover. The most important thing that must be perfect is the fore-aft movement of the cam, it must be perfectly set-up, serious consequences result if this is not done correctly. A roller cam will give the engine a new personality, the difference is night and day compared to a hyd. cam. Just my experiance on the painful learning curve.
Mike
Mike
3.8L V-8 eater
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
Ya, I'm definetly going with a complete kit from a vendor on this site who understands how critical the things you mentioned are... Weber is probably a safe bet and will likely be my choice!!
JDSfastGN
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2001
Alright Ill be the first to say it... I see NO advantage to spending the extra money on a billet roller over a austempered roller on a smaller duration cam (224 and below). Maybe with a huge lift duration I would spend the money because of spring pressure, but nobody has had issues with the newer austempered cams that I have heard of and they require no modifications to the front cover and no bronze gear. But hey if ya'll want to spend the extra 5-600 go for it 
that national
Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2006
Alright Ill be the first to say it... I see NO advantage to spending the extra money on a billet roller over a austempered roller on a smaller duration cam (224 and below). Maybe with a huge lift duration I would spend the money because of spring pressure, but nobody has had issues with the newer austempered cams that I have heard of and they require no modifications to the front cover and no bronze gear. But hey if ya'll want to spend the extra 5-600 go for it
i agree
m233roller
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2002
BRONZE GEAR ??
Iv'e been running a Weber 206-206 billet roller (and I machined the pocket in the front cover myself) for 6 years with the stock cam sensor gear and have had ZERO issues. I even bought a poly gear a couple of years ago but never have installed it as my cam sensor gear looks perfect. My GN is drove ALOT in good weather ( almost 40,000 in the 6 years with the Weber billet roller set up. ZERO cam or cam gear problems. Wish I could say that about those piece of S--T comp cam roller lifters!! I now have the new MORELS !!
Iv'e been running a Weber 206-206 billet roller (and I machined the pocket in the front cover myself) for 6 years with the stock cam sensor gear and have had ZERO issues. I even bought a poly gear a couple of years ago but never have installed it as my cam sensor gear looks perfect. My GN is drove ALOT in good weather ( almost 40,000 in the 6 years with the Weber billet roller set up. ZERO cam or cam gear problems. Wish I could say that about those piece of S--T comp cam roller lifters!! I now have the new MORELS !!
Mike
I am not familuar with Webbers setup--Since you have that much service on your with no wear then I have to assume they have made some kind of provision to get some earl onto the 2 gears where they mate. That is why I ask earlier to keep us informed on wear with the new composite gear. I have had some dealings with Weber and I will say I believe Brian to be on top of some things other builders aren't. --Such as knowing that the seal area must have knurling on it!!!!!!
I am not familuar with Webbers setup--Since you have that much service on your with no wear then I have to assume they have made some kind of provision to get some earl onto the 2 gears where they mate. That is why I ask earlier to keep us informed on wear with the new composite gear. I have had some dealings with Weber and I will say I believe Brian to be on top of some things other builders aren't. --Such as knowing that the seal area must have knurling on it!!!!!!
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
Alright Ill be the first to say it... I see NO advantage to spending the extra money on a billet roller over a austempered roller on a smaller duration cam (224 and below). Maybe with a huge lift duration I would spend the money because of spring pressure, but nobody has had issues with the newer austempered cams that I have heard of and they require no modifications to the front cover and no bronze gear. But hey if ya'll want to spend the extra 5-600 go for it
Based upon the 200 or so ductile roller cams kits we have sold and installed, you are right on the money with your comment.
No special machining to the cam, cover or block is required, and an off-the-shelf timing set can be used.
The downside to the Weber set-up for a billet roller cam is not only does the timing cover need machined or modified, so does the cam timing gear. Replacing a timing chain set requires this special gear.
All billet roller cams requires the nose to be machined so the cam sensor gear, cam drive gear and spacer all have the correct tolerances to fit properly, and it is different depending on which retention style is used.
My preference, based upon the many billet roller cams we have done is to use the "Danny Bee" type cam retention method. This is a simple plate that bolts to the front of the block to retain the cam from forward or backward motion. To install this set up, 3 small holes must be drilled and tapped in the front of the block. Very easy with the engine on a stand, not so much in the car. :smile:
Many other Buick V-6 performance engine builders use this method as is is the most reliable. This is not a new retention method, as it has been used in Stage blocks for many years. The TA alum block is also set up for type cam retention.
The cam nose must also be machined for this type install, and billet cams sold by Comp and TA Performance can be purchased with this already done.
One more comment, when using a roller cam, especially a billet one, the use of and oil additive like ZDDP is STRONGLY recommended as the high spring pressures can damage the cam and/or the small roller bearing in the lifters.
Would like to add one more comment about the use of hydraulic [ductile] roller vs. billet roller. In high performance applications where RPM is way above the 6000 level and into 7000+ RPM level, a solid roller is needed, and of course only a billet cam should be considered.
With street/strip engines that rarely exceed 6000 RPM, the hydraulic roller is more than adequate, and the billet is overkill for those that prefer to go that route.
3.8L V-8 eater
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
Based upon the 200 or so ductile roller cams kits we have sold and installed, you are right on the money with your comment.
No special machining to the cam, cover or block is required, and an off-the-shelf timing set can be used.
The downside to the Weber set-up for a billet roller cam is not only does the timing cover need machined or modified, so does the cam timing gear. Replacing a timing chain set requires this special gear.
All billet roller cams requires the nose to be machined so the cam sensor gear, cam drive gear and spacer all have the correct tolerances to fit properly, and it is different depending on which retention style is used.
My preference, based upon the many billet roller cams we have done is to use the "Danny Bee" type cam retention method. This is a simple plate that bolts to the front of the block to retain the cam from forward or backward motion. To install this set up, 3 small holes must be drilled and tapped in the front of the block. Very easy with the engine on a stand, not so much in the car. :smile:
Many other Buick V-6 performance engine builders use this method as is is the most reliable. This is not a new retention method, as it has been used in Stage blocks for many years. The TA alum block is also set up for type cam retention.
The cam nose must also be machined for this type install, and billet cams sold by Comp and TA Performance can be purchased with this already done.
One more comment, when using a roller cam, especially a billet one, the use of and oil additive like ZDDP is STRONGLY recommended as the high spring pressures can damage the cam and/or the small roller bearing in the lifters.
Would like to add one more comment about the use of hydraulic [ductile] roller vs. billet roller. In high performance applications where RPM is way above the 6000 level and into 7000+ RPM level, a solid roller is needed, and of course only a billet cam should be considered.
With street/strip engines that rarely exceed 6000 RPM, the hydraulic roller is more than adequate, and the billet is overkill for those that prefer to go that route.
So, a billet would be an overkill
So the "Danny Bee" method would be superior over the torrington bearing used in a billet roller cam kit??? What about the Revolutionary cam kit that Mike at Full Throttle sells. What mods need to be done for that set up to work???
