I -think- a FAST bug may have grenaded my motor

[davepl]

I've stumbled a few times across what I think might be a bug in the FAST Windows software, and if I'm right, it cost me a motor. But this is merely what I -think- happened, not an indictment of the software per se. But if others have noticed it, I'd be interested to hear about it.

I've found that if you somewhat rapidly change a cell using +/- keys, it can corrupt that cell and NOT have the value reflected in the table until you completely refresh it.

My first experience was with the idle speed... I was trying to bring it down, so I was hitting the - key repeatedly, and all of a sudden it would jump up to 1200 rpm, while the screen showed 500. If I closed the table and re-opened it, THEN the high value would appear. I believe I talked to FAST about this issue and they confirmed it, and that it only happened in the Windows version. I'm a little bitter it wasn't fixed, but at that point, I didn't care much, because it was annoying but generally harmless.

A few months later, however, I was working on my timing curve, and trying to bring the advance in a number of boost cells down. I brought them down from the stock 20s down to the 15 range and went out for a pass.

As soon as I hit about 4000 rpm there was a horrible sound (massive detonation) , a bang (the sounds of my ring lands bouncing off the oil pan, no doubt), and smoke. Long story short, it blew a hole in a piston and the ring lands off several others. I lifted immediately of course, but it wasn't quick enough.

I limped it home and checked the tables, and two of the advance cells had 63 as their values. That's a LOT of advance under boost, to say the least. I'm guessing 63 is (2^6-1), the max that cell can hold.

I'm also guessing that this cell was corrupted by the alleged bug in the software that trashes cell contents when you're using the increment/decrement keys faster than the screen refresh time.

Has anyone else noticed this issue with cell data and fast use of the inc/dec keys?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Ricky Trussell]

I have also had this problem. Except mine was in the VE table putting in 16 in a upper kpa level. That was no fun either. What speed laptop do you have? Other people that I know have had this problem use a slower laptop like I do. I have gone back to the dos to tune and use the windows for logging.

I think there should be something put out on this but I know it is hard to reach everyone with a F.A.S.T. system. That is why I sorta hang around this site to learn what I can even though I do not have a " turbo buick".

I wonder how hard it would be for F.A.S.T to host a forum dedicated to their controller but not just turbo specific. Sometimes I feel a lttle out of place here.

 

[norbs]

Stories like this, always keeps me going back to the simple dos version. The windows version is alot nicer to work with, but the datlogging bug is very frustrating as well, so i stay away from it, until it is ironed out. I hate to go through what you just did for something so odd. I would call fast up and tell them what you went through and get some changes made. I have tried to get the L key incorporated into the windows software, with no progress , maybe you can have better luck. The L key is such a nice feature on the Dos version. YOu basically cruise , not accelerate, press the L key and instantly you get the proper VE for the a/f ratio programmed in, very simple. I'm sure they are working on it and will have fixes soon

Just my O2


norb

 

[davepl]

Where can I get ahold of the DOS version? I'd prefer not to lose the replacement motor too, so perhaps I should tune with the DOS version.

Presuming I am entitled to the DOS version as a FAST owner, can someone send me a copy?

Thanks,
Dave@softwareonline.com

 

[norbs]

its on the fast website. It should work once your ecm is plugged in

http://www.fuelairspark.com/

 

[bobc455]

I have noticed that if I change a large chunk of data, sometimes it tried to communicate so fast that the ECM gets confused and resets.

I use the DOS version, and that only happens when I use a fast computer under windows- my ancient DOS laptop does not have this problem.

Once the ECM resets, I get either a mixture of old and new values, or all new values. But if you got 63, it sounds like something got corrupted.

-Bob C.

 

[TURBOZ]

Wow I just picked up a copy of the windows version. The major benifit I saw was in the data logger. Anyway thanks for the info I will go put it in the trash

 

[Big Bird R/T]

Norb, am I right in my understanding the "L key" only works in the Alpha mode?
Ron

Originally posted by norbs
Stories like this, always keeps me going back to the simple dos version. The windows version is alot nicer to work with, but the datlogging bug is very frustrating as well, so i stay away from it, until it is ironed out. I hate to go through what you just did for something so odd. I would call fast up and tell them what you went through and get some changes made. I have tried to get the L key incorporated into the windows software, with no progress , maybe you can have better luck. The L key is such a nice feature on the Dos version. YOu basically cruise , not accelerate, press the L key and instantly you get the proper VE for the a/f ratio programmed in, very simple. I'm sure they are working on it and will have fixes soon

Just my O2


norb

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Heard thios before too!`

I talked to someone at Bristol about this very same problem. I think it was Scott Porter... Scott, if U R on here, is this what you described to be as the problem w/ bogus values??

 

[Ricky Trussell]

Big Bird R/T

The L key works with the dos version in speed density. I do not know if it works in alpha mode.

Just so I will know what is the problem with the windows data log? I do use it because I never took the time to figure out how to set up the Dos logging.

 

[70L34]

DOS software

I am interested in getting a copy of the DOS software. The d/l on the website is only a demo version, right? Where can I get a fully functional copy?

Thanks,
Tony

 

[Chuck Leeper]

DEMO??

Tony, I think once you connect to the ECM, you can then use the software.

 

[STP]

Hey Chuck, sorry I missed your call, been slammed around here and trying to get moved into a new house. Thx for forwarding this to me...You are correct, this is the same problem that has shown itself on two different occasions. Once in the VE table which wasn't as damaging and again in the timing map. After a pass in Bristol earlier this year I found a cell at 63* with all other cells around it at ~25*. I was lucky and heard the detonation and lifted. Sorry to hear of your misfortune Dave.....FYI I'm using a 600mhz Sony laptop and have been the entire time the FAST has been on the car....Windows version as well. Scott

 

[10SV6]

This happens on the windows version when you use the PageUp, PageDown, or arrow keys to make changes. The Windows version takes up alot of system resources and the key wrap is slow. If you use those keys and only press and release them for a change of a single value the program works great. It's when you hold them and watch the cursor go up or down that you have problems. That's when you max out areas that you were making changes in.

The windows version is a pita to use if you don't use the stand alone datalogger. If you get the datalogger the Windows version is the nuts.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Another wierd happening to add to the list!!

C-COMWP.. All's set up in the timing map, and the car is running well.
Driver makes the pass, and the car slows down dramatically..
A look at the data log shows that at the shift, the timing goes back to 8.5* advance. Did it on more than one occasion. The map called for 26*, etc.
The system is sequential, and has no knok retard feature.. WTF is this about??
Anyone else see this happen? If so, what was determined to be the cause??

 

[DOHC Vobra]

Don't know if this is related, but I've seen some similar "oddities" in the last month.

First, trying to use the "Read File" option under CCOM-WP while the engine is running causes a couple of communication errors with the laptop. It eventually worked, but I found that a couple of the tables were completely corrupted. (the TPS vs. AE tables were trashed, and caused the car to be undriveable)

It seems that doing the same thing without the engine running fixed the problem. A week later, I went out and started the car and it would stumble on tip-in, again I found the TPS rate vs AE was corrupted (acutally taking out fuel on tip on).

I'm not sure whether or not it was the FAST or the windows software...either way, a potentially dangerous situation!

Justin

 

[10SV6]

I've noticed the same thing. With the ecm and the laptop live making changes takes forever. The only thing I do live is save programs and read programs to the ecm.

 

[NoSlix]

Interesting. I've been using the windows version since late 2000. I've had three different copies since then and have worked on multiple cars and never seen this issue. I've been known to do exactly as you're reporting too. Wonder what's different about mine, that's allowing me to not see this issue.

 

[Ricky Trussell]

No slix

What is the speed of your computer? I ask this trying to get to the problem. I could spend the 500 or so for a faster computer but I would like to know that is the problem first. It is the spikes in the idle speed and timing that bother me especially when I am not working in that map.

 

[NoSlix]

hahaha. speed? Not this one! It's a Compaq Armada 1700 32mb Pentium 100mhz circa 1998. You can't kill it, though! It's hit the dash at least 8 times after forgetting to lock it down before a run and pulling the chute, been dropped out of the truck door at least a half dozen times onto pavement, and has even been through a fire.