In need of SERIOUS GOOD ADVICE, Please!

[GorillaNuts]

Greetings Fellas from Afghanistan! I'm Lou. Nice forum, I've lurked for far too long now I've saved up some good dough and I need some serious advice....

A lil' Backround first...

1987 GN 27k miles. Stock. Garaged for many many years. Before putting her back on the road for a nice road trip I did the obvious tune-up but over looked a vacuum line which popped off and spiked and blew a valve. I'm not much for racing her but I do enjoy teaching lessons and representing the best car ever.

The Question:

If you had a decent budget for parts ($3500-4500) and you were in my situation & wanted to pretty much bulletproof the motor. What parts would you buy? Please provide a parts list, I'm open to any set-up and boosting HP target 450hp tops. I'm willing to PayPal someone some money for a few cases of beer as a thank for helping me out, if i choose your set-up.

I will be using GBodyParts.com for this purchase unless anyone has a better link/parts store. So please select from what they have there. I've located a mechanic while stateside who I trust and have known for a while and is insured. I also have my brothers who will be incharge of the build.

Thanks alot guys!

 

[HelloBozos]

To add billet main caps,forge pistons,install larger valves an port the stock heads,with all the machine work your looking at $4000 alone.Then you'll have to "bullet" proff your transmission too.

Enjoy!

 

[GorillaNuts]

thanks for the info, man. at what point in HP should a person consider bulletproofing the trans? again this isnt a drag racer. She's more of a weekender than anything. But its good info nonetheless

 

[naste87t]

here is the built.

From top to bottom, considering your bottom end still in good shape.

Heads bowl work do it yourself Free if you are capable of doing it or a good shop will charge aroud $200
3 angle valve job good machine shop $200 to $300
100 pound springs $80
Port your stock manifold to match heads about $150
keep stock headers they are good down to 10.50 sec range
cometic head gaskets $140
arp head studs at least $120
hot wire +fuel pump $200
cold air kit $150
Razors alky kit if your going to run more than 16psi $600
turbo tweak alky chip $90
you can stick with a flat tapped or if you want to go a little fancy do a roller cam setup. 210/210 or 206/206 would me more than enough for your setup, cam and lifters about $200 for flat tapped and around $400 for the roller setup
42 pound injectors you can find them here for around $200
translator and LS1 maf, junk yard for maf about $20.00 and translater from full throttle about $150 i think, or find a used one here for a lot cheaper
rollermaster chain $160
your stock pistons and connecting rods are good enough for 550rwhp
TA 49 or TA 60 turbo stock appearing turbo with .63 precision AR exhaust housing $600
Stock duttweiler neck IC you can buy one here for cheap under $100
port the stock timing chain cover oil passages for better oil flow ( cost nothing except your time)
transmission shift kit and a good 3k stall convertor about $800 if you wont be using any hardened parts on it.

TOTAL= $4,460.00

Run 21 to 24psi and you will be in the mid 400rwhp and have an 11 sec ride all day long..

I will PM you my paypal.

on the trannie issue, anything over 475rwhp you should consider bulletproofing which doesnt come cheap.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

If you blew a headgasket and shut it down before coolant got to the bearings, just pull the heads, clean em, new valve springs, guides and throw it back on the car and change the oil. You say it's stock, so upgrade injectors or send to Chuck Leeper for cleaning, new TT/FullThrottle/JayC chip for your injectors, new fuel pump, fuel pressure gauge to verify you have fuel under boost. Scanmaster at a minimum. Labor rates are going to kill your budget if you try to bullet proof anything, by bullet proof I mean new crank, rods, pistons girdle and caps and all the machine work to get that together. Plan on $20-30K if you aren't doing anything yourself and doing it right. So, first get it back running well in near stock condition and save some of that money for when the little things break, like relays, blower motors, switches, interior trim pieces etc... Once its running low 13.0's on pump gas, then get some alkycontrol and turn up the boost. Thank you for your service!

 

[GorillaNuts]

WOW thanks for the fast reply fellas.. this is very interesting. Once my mechanic rips the head off & verifies it was a valve in number 3.. I'll more than likely pick the path I'll head down. Again very much appreciated.

 

[RossGN]

If you're in Texas, you might also consider using Jack Laswell at JL Enterprises to do a turn-key build. Nothing like 24 years experience building and running these particular cars. He is highly recommended by the Lone Star Performance Buick Club and his shop (and the cars in it) are top notch. His shop is in Rowlett TX 972-412-9000. Being such a low mileage car, I would want only the berst workin on it.

 

[Just a Six??]

If you blew a headgasket and shut it down before coolant got to the bearings, just pull the heads, clean em, new valve springs, guides and throw it back on the car and change the oil. You say it's stock, so upgrade injectors or send to Chuck Leeper for cleaning, new TT/FullThrottle/JayC chip for your injectors, new fuel pump, fuel pressure gauge to verify you have fuel under boost. Scanmaster at a minimum. Labor rates are going to kill your budget if you try to bullet proof anything, by bullet proof I mean new crank, rods, pistons girdle and caps and all the machine work to get that together. Plan on $20-30K if you aren't doing anything yourself and doing it right. So, first get it back running well in near stock condition and save some of that money for when the little things break, like relays, blower motors, switches, interior trim pieces etc... Once its running low 13.0's on pump gas, then get some alkycontrol and turn up the boost. Thank you for your service!

I agree with going this way more or less. Do the Basics like TT chip, injectors, scanmaster & fuel as mentioned. Add alchy & leave it at 22-24lbs & it will run hard all day everyday.
Do lots of reading here Vortex Buicks & the original Buick Bible Turbo Regal Web Site
KISS method is best! Keep It Simple Stupid!!

 

[GorillaNuts]

If you're in Texas, you might also consider using Jack Laswell at JL Enterprises to do a turn-key build. Nothing like 24 years experience building and running these particular cars. He is highly recommended by the Lone Star Performance Buick Club and his shop (and the cars in it) are top notch. His shop is in Rowlett TX 972-412-9000. Being such a low mileage car, I would want only the berst workin on it.

This is also a good idea. I will give him a call here shortly. I will tell him you refered me also, if you don't mind PM'ing me you name. I really appreciate it.
-------------------------------


The BEER MONEY will go out to whichever route I take. Keep the great ideas coming. I received a few pretty damn good build ideas on PM aswell. Thanks alot, Louis. Good Name btw.

 

[SHADOWII]

WOW thanks for the fast reply fellas.. this is very interesting. Once my mechanic rips the head off & verifies it was a valve in number 3.. I'll more than likely pick the path I'll head down. Again very much appreciated.

A valve in #3 cylinder could be the cam lobe has been wiped out. It has been a common occurance w/ todays oils.

And Thank you for your service. And for those who haven't heard, the senate declared "welcome home viet nam veterans day" on March 30th. The same day in 1973 when the withdrawal was initiated.(I'm still not voting for any of them!)

 

[charlief1]

Since you're in central Texas and I'm north of Waco 30 miles I'll make you an offer I've never made before. If you want to learn how to port the heads and intake you bring them up here and I will teach you how. You can use my equipment free of charge when you get back.

 

[GorillaNuts]

Since you're in central Texas and I'm north of Waco 30 miles I'll make you an offer I've never made before. If you want to learn how to port the heads and intake you bring them up here and I will teach you how. You can use my equipment free of charge when you get back.

Talk about some Texas hospitality! That right there folks is what we are all about down there. I really appreciate that boss. That is pretty damn cool of you.

 

[GorillaNuts]

If you're in Texas, you might also consider using Jack Laswell at JL Enterprises to do a turn-key build. Nothing like 24 years experience building and running these particular cars. He is highly recommended by the Lone Star Performance Buick Club and his shop (and the cars in it) are top notch. His shop is in Rowlett TX 972-412-9000. Being such a low mileage car, I would want only the berst workin on it.

Well Thanks for all the ideas and well wishing fellas. It makes a guy way out here feel like he has some guys he can fall back on when he's in a pinch. I really do appreciate that.

RossGN... I called Jack and we're planning on bringing my "Maggie" up there to him. Just a lil over 3hrs from my home of Ft. Hood. Please email my your PayPal info so I can send you some beer money. You managed to lead me to a pretty good guy who knows his stuff. Killed 2 birds with 1 stone with this. Thanks alot!!

For the record we're talking about a stock-ish 350hp build at a fairly reasonable price. I'm excited and I hope all goes well. I'll keep you all posted.

 

[charlief1]

Talk about some Texas hospitality! That right there folks is what we are all about down there. I really appreciate that boss. That is pretty damn cool of you.

USAR MP ex. Figured I could help out and teach you if you wanted to. Have the heads and intake cleaned and leave the valves out of them when you come. That way you can get them done easier. Here's a link so you know what you can do with them.:biggrin:

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/before-black-non-sfi-tech/301108-little-head-progress-you-guys.html

 

[Phoneguy]

Thanks for your service!!

I think with your goals a simple build will be just fine. I would stick with a stock style head gasket and ARP bolts. Studs are not needed at your level, but cant hurt. Fuel system upgrade with hotwire, scan tool, ALKYCONTROL, take Charlie up on his generous offer and get the heads done and put some better springs in them. IF the lower end NEEDS to be redone put the billet caps on it, otherwise leave it alone. A small roller cam would be a nice addition, TT chip, 60lb injectors will give you a nice idle, 5857E billet turbo. Good luck.

Bryan

 

[Red Regal T]

If you're only looking for 450 HP, you don't have to do too much. I'd say, yes, get some billet main caps. A nice set of ported heads. Stock pistons are fine. Alcohol injection should put you at that HP mark. Didn't follow all the comments, but once you install the motor, you can add upgrades as you drive.

 

[GNDriven]

One tip I would have, since you are going down the road of performance upgrades, is build the engine for a higher HP than you want to use at the moment. For it will not be long until you want to turn it up some more. Doing so will put more load on all the engine hard parts, and could take them to the edge of there mechanical abilities. Soon enough you are walking on a very tight line with no net, and one small hickup with the tune will turn yo ride into a garage trophy.

This board offers great build advise one thread after another and if you take the time to read a good bit, you can start to pick out the pieces for a stout short block that will keep you from another big labor $ charge when you want to start going 10s. Don't kid yourself, 450 hp is cool until a snot nose in a C6 pulls you at a redlight, puts on his flashers, extends his greeting finger, and rides off into the sunset with your girlfriend, I've seen it a hundred times. Anyway, do it once, not 8 times like myself. I know it maybe more money than you want to spend at the moment, but there is value in doing it once. I would just upgrade the short block in the following manner. Pistons to a lightweight JEs or like, roller cam, RJC girdle, stock rods and crank or ok, but really you can get a forged crank for 500. Stock heads for now.

This is getting to be a long post, but if you want the best advice I can give it is this. Read some EFI books on tunning, and learn how to work on the car yourself (when you get back). This will allow you to maintenance the car (which it will need often since you are changing it form stock) and afford additional upgrades in the future.
Thank you for protecting our liberties.

 

[machinegun]

First from one Military man to another, Thank you for your service and be safe. Come back in one peice. Once you do if you are anywhere in my area stop by, I will buy you lunch.

To reach your goals you are not going to need alot.

If you really need to work on the engine here is the first thing you need to do.

First tear down what you have and lets look at it.

Investigate and list all that is good and all that is bad.

Once this is complete you will have a btter idea as to what you need to do.

Now going on some pas experience and facts here is my suggestions and what I have done for past customers and myself.

109 seasond block

1, 2, 3 billet mains

ARP hardware

Stock crank. Stock turbo rods and even the stock SDP hardware for the stock rods. If your bores are clean, look good just slightly hone for fresh cross hatch and use your stock pistons if good and get a set of file to fit rings.

blueprint the front cover

Keep the other stuff pretty stock.

A 206 or even a 212 flat tappet cam will work well.

This long block will be more than capable of a high 10 pass with tunning, it will run mid to low 11's all day in the heat with out even working hard.

You may want to upgrade the trans after this just to handle the noew found torque

Now there are plenty of other items to discuss such as injectors turbo chips tires but this should get you started and ll of this can be done for not alot of money. Less thant you are thinking.

Now if you need more hard parts such as pistons crank or rods you will need to budget accordingly

Hope this helps

 

[KL Mallender]

The first step would be fitting the engine with a "mid-plate" restraint to control block twist before you actually twist it out of centerline.
Holding an engines position by front mounts or tie-down strap is not in your best interest, although it is much easier and does accomplish anti-movement, you are asking the block to hold back the rotational forces fed back through driveshaft/transmission during acceleration, This is number one reason for cracked #3 main cap. I am a proponent for girdles but even they can't resist these forces.
Yes, steel caps conform to movement that castings won't(steel can distort, castings do not) but you would still experience bad wear on main journals because crank centerline(block) moves if held by the front.
This modification (mid-plate) will solve lower end failures(except oil pressure related issuse's), but head sealing will still be problematic if tuning is not right, pushing timing advance with leaner fuel mixtures will create higher peak numbers, but these peaks are what you should avoid.
If you keep these forces in mind, creating horsepower gets easier when you dont have to replace short blocks frequently, others here have much more experience with latest power combinations than I am, I haven't touched a 3.8 since the late nineties, 3800's rule in my book.
Good luck.

Kevin.

 

[Turbo-Archie]

I can’t imagine anyone willing to take beer money from a guy serving in Afghanistan??

We should be sending you beer money!!!



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