Initial tune - lots of timing?

0-60n4

Active Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2003
I have not confirmed what chip is in this car. The paperwork appeared to be TT 60lb. It came with a boost gauge, fuel pressure gauge and an old ATR L.E.D. a/f ratio display. The a/f ratio display goes full rich on WOT so I figured it was safe. 17 psi boost. FP rises 1:1 with 40 psi at idle with the hose connected. The car pulled OK at first but then leveled off pretty quickly (kinda flat really). I figured it might be running too rich.

I got a Scan Master this weekend and hooked it up. Wow, lot's of KR at WOT. Like 15 - 19 degrees. O2 volts was aronnd 830. Running 93 octane pump gas. So I wanted to confirm it was really knock and not false knock so today I removed the 93 octane and put in 8 gallons of 110 octane. BAM! pulls hard the whole way with 0.7 degrees of KR althoug I could see a momentary blip durning 1 - 2 WOT shifts. Feels much better. I have an Inovate Wide Band O2 sensor on order.

So I'm guess the chip must be a race chip with lots of timing advance. Make sense?

I don't drive the car much so I could live with a full-time race gas car.

Questions: It appears to have a manual boost controller under the dash. What would be a safe boost level on 110 race gas?

What O2 volts should I shoot for?

What's good but safe A/F ratio?

What is acceptible KR?

Next I plant to experiment with Octane to see wha the minimum is I can run with out getting knock. 110 may be more that required.

What are my best options if I want to run 93 pump gas?
1. turn boost down.
2. don't step on the gas pedal.
3. change chips
4. Alchy
5. other?


Thanks,

Jim
 
Jim,

I think the first thing you should do is pull out the chip and see what you have. It sounds like a race chip based on the fact that it appears to have aggressive timing and additional fuel. I wouldn't risk running it on 93 octane even with low boost. If it is a TT chip I'm sure Eric can tell you what it is and make you something more in line with what you need.

Neal
 
^^^^What Neal said.
Also:
"I don't drive the car much so I could live with a full-time race gas car." You may be able to live w/ the race gas, but your O2 sensors won't.
 
Good points. I'll pull that chip and see exactly what I have.

Thanks,

Jim
 
0-60n4 said:
I got a Scan Master this weekend and hooked it up. Wow, lot's of KR at WOT. Like 15 - 19 degrees. ]


OUCH!! First thing I would do is confirm you have a TT chip and get with Eric and get a 93oct one
 
Being an long time user of Turbo Tweak chips you can do a few things before you pull the chip out of the ECM. You said it had paperwork correct? Does it have the Turbo Tweak receipt? It will tell you everything you need to know about the chip and what it was burned for. If you remove it you may loose settings someone has made to the timing or fueling. You need to use the programming mode and scanmaster to see how it is set before you remove it. Lastly... It can be made to work on 93 octane by lowering the timing in the chips features and fueling can be adjusted also. That's the point of an adjustable chip.
 
Questions: It appears to have a manual boost controller under the dash. What would be a safe boost level on 110 race gas? As much as you CAN run. Sneak up on it 1 PSI at a time, monitoring knock closely with every pull. I typically do more than one pull every time boost is increased, just to be "extra" sure. As a rule of thumb, you'll get more power from an increase in boost that you will from an increase in timing.

What O2 volts should I shoot for? Typical is 780-800

What's good but safe A/F ratio?

What is acceptible KR? Zero. Whenever you experience KR, you are losing power because the ECM is retarding the timing. The ECM is retarding timing because it "heard" detonation. That detonation is damaging to the engine internals, even though it may not cause an immediate failure.

Next I plant to experiment with Octane to see wha the minimum is I can run with out getting knock. 110 may be more that required.

What are my best options if I want to run 93 pump gas?
1. turn boost down. (Good idea)
2. don't step on the gas pedal.
3. change chips (Not absolutely necessary if you a chip that allows adjustment to fuel and timing. You'll need to back out (retard) timing considerably if running 93 on a 110 chip)
4. Alchy (Better idea - people rave about methanol injection. It will allow you to run more boost and timing than just 93)
5. other? (E85 is a good idea!!!)
 
B4 U go nutz changing stuff, check the torque on the knock sensor. It may have been installed w/ an impact gun...:eek::D
Should be 14 #/ft.
 
can someone guide me on how to use the program mode and scan master to determine the existing program. Also, the car came with a small laptop of some type but I have not checked to see what it is.
 
If you can pull the chip out of the ECM, there is a label on the bottom. If you give me the info on the label, I can look it up.
I keep records of all the chips I've made.
Regards,
Eric
 
Has the baseline timing been verified? If not I'd start there. Once you know that you can determine the total timing. Without knowing that you could be pissing in the wind. It's also possible that you had a bad batch of 93 octane. Like it was actually 87 octane
 
Eric, the chip is:

T5.6 3665
60# street 93
20/18 degrees 15-17 psi

So it does not appear the chip is a race gas only chip. But it's strange the KR whent to zero with the 110 octane full.
I have not verified baseline timing. What should it be and what's the best way to verify? I have a good timing light.
 
Eric, the chip is:

T5.6 3665
60# street 93
20/18 degrees 15-17 psi

So it does not appear the chip is a race gas only chip. But it's strange the KR whent to zero with the 110 octane full.
I have not verified baseline timing. What should it be , 10 degrees? Is that with the tan/black wire disconnected at the ecm or the A and B ALDL terminals jumped? and what's the best way to verify? I have a good timing light.
 
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