TURBOPOWERED68
David
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
Lock up vs. Non l/u efficiency when unlocked
- Thread starter turbo nasty
- Start date
Scott89TTA
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
Great thread...
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2001
Might as well give an update on my TC status, its been several months.....
Was locking the convertor and shouldnt have been and broke every spring in the sucker and it was rattling like crazy and sounded like a POS.
I pulled teh trans and convertor and sent the TC back to Pats.
Steve at PAT's has stood behind this convertor above and beyond and put a new lining and restalled it and sent it back FREE!!
Knowing that it needed to be tightend I asked him to make the sucker around 2.4 -2.6k as efficient as possible.
He put a whole different stator and turbine design in it (the design used on the cars with DBB turbos) since my lil Gt3255 spools so fast.
The car is completely different now and is waaay better on the big end and all around for that matter.
Moral of the story...is staying with a L/U convertor and not locking it at WOT then get it as tight as you can get by with. Especially when dealing with smaller units.
Was locking the convertor and shouldnt have been and broke every spring in the sucker and it was rattling like crazy and sounded like a POS.
I pulled teh trans and convertor and sent the TC back to Pats.
Steve at PAT's has stood behind this convertor above and beyond and put a new lining and restalled it and sent it back FREE!!
Knowing that it needed to be tightend I asked him to make the sucker around 2.4 -2.6k as efficient as possible.
He put a whole different stator and turbine design in it (the design used on the cars with DBB turbos) since my lil Gt3255 spools so fast.
The car is completely different now and is waaay better on the big end and all around for that matter.
Moral of the story...is staying with a L/U convertor and not locking it at WOT then get it as tight as you can get by with. Especially when dealing with smaller units.
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2001
I run on.......ummm.....the street.....uuh I mean track. So I have no times
But having raced the same cars before that would pull away from me before I now can put a car on them now or just pull away through 2nd.
I feel comfortable saying at least 2 tenths faster. Probably more than that honestly.
Can say that the car car slowed 5 tenths and 7 mph (not a typo it slowed that much). When i originally put the 3k Pats in the car coming from the D5.
If I get to the track or get a Gtech ill post up what she runs now.
But having raced the same cars before that would pull away from me before I now can put a car on them now or just pull away through 2nd.
I feel comfortable saying at least 2 tenths faster. Probably more than that honestly.
Can say that the car car slowed 5 tenths and 7 mph (not a typo it slowed that much). When i originally put the 3k Pats in the car coming from the D5.
If I get to the track or get a Gtech ill post up what she runs now.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2005
good info jason,and good thread to everyone whos throwing input to us....my car w/ta49,20+ psi ,stock cam....plenty of traction im going non-l/u.....not worried too much about mpg......
i need a 2800-3000 then? new valve springs,th dp,slic coming this winter.
got in the 12's with all stock engine,intercooler,stock air box,bad stock converter,bad valve springs... plus a ta49,tt chip...im bored now......
i need a 2800-3000 then? new valve springs,th dp,slic coming this winter.
got in the 12's with all stock engine,intercooler,stock air box,bad stock converter,bad valve springs... plus a ta49,tt chip...im bored now......
Dusty Bradford
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
With the 10" converters you'd want a 2400. The stock cam needs a tight converter.
With my 9.5 you could run a 2800-3000. I can run these looser down low for spooling without giving up anything up top. The 10" converters can't do that.
TURBOPOWERED68
David
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
I have been dreaming about a TC for a long time I just can't make up my mind.
HELP
TE-4461
Stock long block
3.08 Rear gears.
The problem is that I love my L/U D5 on the highway and stop-and-go driving, but my cow like off the line times and slow spool-up have me thinking about adding a couple hundred more RPMs.
200, 300 or 500 more?
What do you think?
Dusty Bradford
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
A really tight 10" like a 2400 stall. Test your converter at 0-1# of boost and report back. It should be around 1600-1800. Knowing what yours is currently stalling will make choosing something new, much easier.
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2001
FWIW I have a friend (Gary its Barts Car) cars that just went through this as I did.
This is not a slam to Dusty or PTC, its simply a bud that didnt realize what we are covering here.
He bought a used PTC L/U 2800 10" and put in his car and it lays over in third doesnt accelerate.
He swapped the convertors because his other (12' 2800) was making noise.
The car has is .020 over, cam, valve job, TA49, etc and before from a 45 roll he would pass me. Now since he swapped convertors its literally like he hits the brakes and I run off and leave him.
Like I said nothing against PTC products. Just simply another example of what we are covering.
Hes going to pull it out and send it back to PTC for tightening.
This is not a slam to Dusty or PTC, its simply a bud that didnt realize what we are covering here.
He bought a used PTC L/U 2800 10" and put in his car and it lays over in third doesnt accelerate.
He swapped the convertors because his other (12' 2800) was making noise.
The car has is .020 over, cam, valve job, TA49, etc and before from a 45 roll he would pass me. Now since he swapped convertors its literally like he hits the brakes and I run off and leave him.
Like I said nothing against PTC products. Just simply another example of what we are covering.
Hes going to pull it out and send it back to PTC for tightening.
TURBOPOWERED68
David
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
Sorry I was sleep typing.
My Turbo is a
TE-6031 With the stock garret exhaust side
Stock long block
3.08 Rear gears.
The problem is that I love my L/U D5 on the highway and stop-and-go driving, but my cow like off the line times and slow spool-up have me thinking about adding a couple hundred more RPMs.
200, 300 or 500 more?
What do you think?
My Turbo is a
TE-6031 With the stock garret exhaust side
Stock long block
3.08 Rear gears.
The problem is that I love my L/U D5 on the highway and stop-and-go driving, but my cow like off the line times and slow spool-up have me thinking about adding a couple hundred more RPMs.
200, 300 or 500 more?
What do you think?
Scott89TTA
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2005
yup...that sure isn't helpin' I would think to get it to run like a GN some 3.42's would sure help to get you in the ball park. Drooping down to a 25" tire would just look silly
Dusty Bradford
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Make sure to do a stall test at 0-1# of boost before taking it out. It's a huge help to have some sort of info to go off of when making changes.
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2001
Will Do
I can tell you im not losing 2-3mpg. I dont keep track of mpg but im only slipping about 5% at light cruise. I know im not losing 5% mpg though. With a POS converter you may lose 2-3 mpg or maybe more. The current car ive been driver has a west coast converters 10" or 12" not sure which but its non locking and slips abot 3% at light cruise. If your losing mpg a good NL converter is a small part of a bigger problem. To be really honest if mpg is important your not driving a TR. They are not economical cars in any way. They were ok for the time when new and not driven hard but comparatively to what can be bought for under $5k today and driven daily for years and years with little maintenance and constant 25+mpg there is no comparison.
This is common with any converter manufacturer. Re-stalls are often needed. Another thing too is that a lot of TR's dont have enough spring so even if the rest of the engine was ok at the higher flash stall the looser converter gives the springs will narrow the power band so much it will never get a chance to couple. If your car is going slower than 11.0 at full weight and has a cam then getting a 2800 10" PTC to work should not be much of a chore. If the car has stock cam or chit springs you are better off with a 2200-2400. A 9.5" PTC will out perform anything ive seen out there yet from anyone. Im still waiting for another converter manufacturer to even be close and still offer the great tech support that Dusty gives with PTC products. They could easily charge $1500 for those converters and still sell almost as many as they do know. When you have something that works that well no serious racer will give a chit about spending the $.
Turbo6Smackdown
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
Might as well give an update on my TC status, its been several months.....
Was locking the convertor and shouldnt have been and broke every spring in the sucker and it was rattling like crazy and sounded like a POS.
I pulled teh trans and convertor and sent the TC back to Pats.
Steve at PAT's has stood behind this convertor above and beyond and put a new lining and restalled it and sent it back FREE!!
Knowing that it needed to be tightend I asked him to make the sucker around 2.4 -2.6k as efficient as possible.
He put a whole different stator and turbine design in it (the design used on the cars with DBB turbos) since my lil Gt3255 spools so fast.
The car is completely different now and is waaay better on the big end and all around for that matter.
Moral of the story...is staying with a L/U convertor and not locking it at WOT then get it as tight as you can get by with. Especially when dealing with smaller units.
So am I guessing that you stayed with a L/U, and chose not to lock at wot, to get the best of both worlds? I'm wondering, because I don't care about fuel efficiency with this car, but DO care about cruising rpms and the noise those rpm's make. So, under which WOT do you not lock it at? A full blown race wot, or both a race wot, and a 'just passing a slow car in traffic' wot as well. Exactly how hard is locking a l/u at WOT on our trans/converters? How did the stockers survive so long then?
I'm always investigating this, as I am at the crossroads as well. I too, would like the best of all the worlds. Low cruising rpms, low heat, good spool and decent mph ability...
turbo nasty
Turbo Dojo / MNTR
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2001
In my car WOT in ALL conditions the TC is NOT being forced to L/U either via chip or manual driver operated Switch.
IMO if you locked a Convertor a WOT it slowly kils the clutch lining in the TC especially with single disks ones.
This is from my First hand knowledge.
Forward drums, OD planets, inputs shafts, directs are gonna take a beating. I killed several of these as well.
The multi disk convertors will hold up better but its still hard on teh trans.
I dont give a crap who has done what, how fast, with whatever car or trans.
Forcing L/U IS hard on the trans and increases the risk of UHH OHHH several times over.....PERIOD. No builder will argue that.
IMO if you had a convertor that worked as well as mine does unlocked you would be happy you have a lil stall cruising around and it helps spool but will couple up top & the L/U drops the RPM's on teh highway for gas MPG and less heat. Several convertor companies can make them. Just review this thread and dont get crazy with a big stall number just because a turbo company says you need a said stall rating to spool and get too big and its sux unlocked in third.
There is alot to be said on "spool" vs. launching with boost.
i.e.-Just because you have a 3000 stall doesn mean you can launch with 15 psi. This is another area that folks get bad setups from. Trans brake is going to be your BEST setup to try and launch with psi over 8ish psi IMO. Anything over that and your gonna bend backing plates on the rear drums not saying people cant get away with it but the back plates do start to take a hit, the s10 WC upgrade is a good way the bend the plates as well.
Its probably sickening the amount of cars out there that are a few tenths slower than they could be due to a 2800- 3000 12" D5 convertor, etc thats just laying over in third.
