Looking for help, not to belittling...

[XBreed]

OK this will be the next thing I purchase for the car. Maybe it can shed more light on what it going on with it. Hopefully it is easy to install.

 

[MikeS]

A wideband o2 would be worth it as well if you have the extra cash. I used an AEM, it was easy to install, and it really helped me dial in the AFR to get the most out of my car.

 

[XBreed]

A wideband o2 would be worth it as well if you have the extra cash. I used an AEM, it was easy to install, and it really helped me dial in the AFR to get the most out of my car.

Thanks Mike. I will look into one of those as well. I'm still doing a lot of reading and learning. I thought I knew a bunch about these cars. Turns out I know nothing. Haha

 

[Pronto]

You know nothing John Snow.

 

[XBreed]

I'm looking into a wideband O2 system. I found this one, PLX Devices Wideband o2 AFR Gauge & Sensor Combo Gen 4 Touchscreen 52mm DM-6. Is this one that will work? Or do I need to find a specific one? Thanks

 

[michael evans]

I have a very slightly used LC-2 O2 that I will sell.

AEM is the best way to go...............

 

[XBreed]

Is that the complete kit Michael? How much?

 

[michael evans]

As it comes. I replaced an LC1 with a new and updated LC2 then switched to XFI.


You will need to get an A/F gauge (An AEM is the best) to hook it up to.

$120.00 shipped to you.

 

[XBreed]

Alright guys I have the money for a power logger and a wideband O2 setup. I am looking at getting everything from TT. I understand the power logger is worth the money and that I need a wideband O2. My question is, are the TT WB O2 worth buying or should I look at a different one? Thanks in advance.

 

[michael evans]

This is what I have:

http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/lc...haust-bung-program-cable-manual-p-n-3914.html

 

[bison]

I didn’t have time to read all the replies but here’s the most likely scenario:
-the car is performing at a level that is less than stock.
-owner expects more performance than stock because the car has “work” done to it when in reality most of what’s done has probably hurt performance

The most probable reasons of lower performance are reduced octane, slow spooling do to exhaust leaks (sometimes internal at the wastegate puck) or wrong torque converter,and the fact it is now 3.73. Additionally the engines valve springs are probably shot or wrong. The MAF sensor could be reading wrong or not to 255gpm causing a fueling problem.

If I were to run this particular car at the drag strip I would expect times around 15 seconds in the quarter mile.

If I wanted to increase this engines performance I’d plan on the following:

1. Fix all pre turbo exhaust leaks and verify torque converter is correct and Remove catalytic converter. If exhaust from cat back is suspect replace it with a free flowing exhaust, open air filter on MAF ( not a Spectre brand!)

2. Verify mass air flow sensor is reading correctly

3. Close plug gaps to .030”

4. Replace valve springs and set to 100-105lbs on the seat

5. Get a set of 275/60-15 drag radials.

6. Use an anti detonant or high octane fuel and have chip burned for it and increase manifold pressure as you specified you’d run when you had the chip burned

If you aren’t going to consider using the 28” tire it’s fairly safe to say the car will run quicker with 3.42 gears.







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[Pronto]

There you go, all in a nutshell.

 

[XBreed]

I didn’t have time to read all the replies but here’s the most likely scenario:
-the car is performing at a level that is less than stock.
-owner expects more performance than stock because the car has “work” done to it when in reality most of what’s done has probably hurt performance

The most probable reasons of lower performance are reduced octane, slow spooling do to exhaust leaks (sometimes internal at the wastegate puck) or wrong torque converter,and the fact it is now 3.73. Additionally the engines valve springs are probably shot or wrong. The MAF sensor could be reading wrong or not to 255gpm causing a fueling problem.

If I were to run this particular car at the drag strip I would expect times around 15 seconds in the quarter mile.

If I wanted to increase this engines performance I’d plan on the following:

1. Fix all pre turbo exhaust leaks and verify torque converter is correct and Remove catalytic converter. If exhaust from cat back is suspect replace it with a free flowing exhaust, open air filter on MAF ( not a Spectre brand!)

2. Verify mass air flow sensor is reading correctly

3. Close plug gaps to .030”

4. Replace valve springs and set to 100-105lbs on the seat

5. Get a set of 275/60-15 drag radials.

6. Use an anti detonant or high octane fuel and have chip burned for it and increase manifold pressure as you specified you’d run when you had the chip burned

If you aren’t going to consider using the 28” tire it’s fairly safe to say the car will run quicker with 3.42 gears.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for pointing all of this out. First off I am asking for help to figure out why it is not running the way it should. You want to help but you don't have the time to read what is done, what I have done, or what I am willing to do. I have 275/60-r15 drag radials on it. I have a chip burned for the fuel and boost I can and try to run. When the engine was rebuilt by a shop, not by myself, there was no mention of needing to replace the springs. Plugs are brand new, along with wires and an accel high energy ignition coil. Plugs are all gapped at .030". I am not looking for the car to be a 10 second car. I was hoping at the beginning of my build, years ago, for a high 11 second car but I realize now that is probably not possible with my set up. If you would like to tell me how to check my MAF I would love to make sure that is working like it should. This whole thread started with me asking for help and not looking to be belittled. I have not done anything crazy to the car, so yes I believe the car should have more performance than stock. I understand the 3.73 gears are not popular and the cam is big, but if you had read through the thread you would have seen where I was willing to pull the engine and change the cam if that was what people thought needed to be done. I have no idea what torque converter is in the car because I have not had the chance to take a look. The part of the conversation that you decided to join in on was where people are looking at the numbers I am getting and letting me know where to start with diagnostics. That is why I asked what wideband to get. I have also admitted that I thought I knew more about these cars than I actually do, that is why I am asking for help. So before you go off on putting it in a nutshell (pronto) for me, maybe try looking at where I am and what I am trying to do, and what I am willing to do. I am not some 20 year old kid that expects the world of the car, but it would be nice to have it perform a little better and have better drivability.

 

[bison]

I didn’t have time to read all the replies but here’s the most likely scenario:
-the car is performing at a level that is less than stock.
-owner expects more performance than stock because the car has “work” done to it when in reality most of what’s done has probably hurt performance

The most probable reasons of lower performance are reduced octane, slow spooling do to exhaust leaks (sometimes internal at the wastegate puck) or wrong torque converter,and the fact it is now 3.73. Additionally the engines valve springs are probably shot or wrong. The MAF sensor could be reading wrong or not to 255gpm causing a fueling problem.

If I were to run this particular car at the drag strip I would expect times around 15 seconds in the quarter mile.

If I wanted to increase this engines performance I’d plan on the following:

1. Fix all pre turbo exhaust leaks and verify torque converter is correct and Remove catalytic converter. If exhaust from cat back is suspect replace it with a free flowing exhaust, open air filter on MAF ( not a Spectre brand!)

2. Verify mass air flow sensor is reading correctly

3. Close plug gaps to .030”

4. Replace valve springs and set to 100-105lbs on the seat

5. Get a set of 275/60-15 drag radials.

6. Use an anti detonant or high octane fuel and have chip burned for it and increase manifold pressure as you specified you’d run when you had the chip burned

If you aren’t going to consider using the 28” tire it’s fairly safe to say the car will run quicker with 3.42 gears.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for pointing all of this out. First off I am asking for help to figure out why it is not running the way it should. You want to help but you don't have the time to read what is done, what I have done, or what I am willing to do. I have 275/60-r15 drag radials on it. I have a chip burned for the fuel and boost I can and try to run. When the engine was rebuilt by a shop, not by myself, there was no mention of needing to replace the springs. Plugs are brand new, along with wires and an accel high energy ignition coil. Plugs are all gapped at .030". I am not looking for the car to be a 10 second car. I was hoping at the beginning of my build, years ago, for a high 11 second car but I realize now that is probably not possible with my set up. If you would like to tell me how to check my MAF I would love to make sure that is working like it should. This whole thread started with me asking for help and not looking to be belittled. I have not done anything crazy to the car, so yes I believe the car should have more performance than stock. I understand the 3.73 gears are not popular and the cam is big, but if you had read through the thread you would have seen where I was willing to pull the engine and change the cam if that was what people thought needed to be done. I have no idea what torque converter is in the car because I have not had the chance to take a look. The part of the conversation that you decided to join in on was where people are looking at the numbers I am getting and letting me know where to start with diagnostics. That is why I asked what wideband to get. I have also admitted that I thought I knew more about these cars than I actually do, that is why I am asking for help. So before you go off on putting it in a nutshell (pronto) for me, maybe try looking at where I am and what I am trying to do, and what I am willing to do. I am not some 20 year old kid that expects the world of the car, but it would be nice to have it perform a little better and have better drivability.

My response is for anyone reading not just you. It’s general tech that I’ve hashed out hundreds of times on this forum. If you read my post and take the suggestions you will probably make progress. Some of which you may have already done. If you don’t you will probably stay where you are or go backward. If you come here in anticipation of hearing what you want to hear and disregard what you don’t want to here you will probably have a long hard battle with the car.


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[seedling]

I didn’t have time to read all the replies but here’s the most likely scenario:
-the car is performing at a level that is less than stock.
-owner expects more performance than stock because the car has “work” done to it when in reality most of what’s done has probably hurt performance

The most probable reasons of lower performance are reduced octane, slow spooling do to exhaust leaks (sometimes internal at the wastegate puck) or wrong torque converter,and the fact it is now 3.73. Additionally the engines valve springs are probably shot or wrong. The MAF sensor could be reading wrong or not to 255gpm causing a fueling problem.

If I were to run this particular car at the drag strip I would expect times around 15 seconds in the quarter mile.

If I wanted to increase this engines performance I’d plan on the following:

1. Fix all pre turbo exhaust leaks and verify torque converter is correct and Remove catalytic converter. If exhaust from cat back is suspect replace it with a free flowing exhaust, open air filter on MAF ( not a Spectre brand!)

2. Verify mass air flow sensor is reading correctly

3. Close plug gaps to .030”

4. Replace valve springs and set to 100-105lbs on the seat

5. Get a set of 275/60-15 drag radials.

6. Use an anti detonant or high octane fuel and have chip burned for it and increase manifold pressure as you specified you’d run when you had the chip burned

If you aren’t going to consider using the 28” tire it’s fairly safe to say the car will run quicker with 3.42 gears.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for pointing all of this out. First off I am asking for help to figure out why it is not running the way it should. You want to help but you don't have the time to read what is done, what I have done, or what I am willing to do. I have 275/60-r15 drag radials on it. I have a chip burned for the fuel and boost I can and try to run. When the engine was rebuilt by a shop, not by myself, there was no mention of needing to replace the springs. Plugs are brand new, along with wires and an accel high energy ignition coil. Plugs are all gapped at .030". I am not looking for the car to be a 10 second car. I was hoping at the beginning of my build, years ago, for a high 11 second car but I realize now that is probably not possible with my set up. If you would like to tell me how to check my MAF I would love to make sure that is working like it should. This whole thread started with me asking for help and not looking to be belittled. I have not done anything crazy to the car, so yes I believe the car should have more performance than stock. I understand the 3.73 gears are not popular and the cam is big, but if you had read through the thread you would have seen where I was willing to pull the engine and change the cam if that was what people thought needed to be done. I have no idea what torque converter is in the car because I have not had the chance to take a look. The part of the conversation that you decided to join in on was where people are looking at the numbers I am getting and letting me know where to start with diagnostics. That is why I asked what wideband to get. I have also admitted that I thought I knew more about these cars than I actually do, that is why I am asking for help. So before you go off on putting it in a nutshell (pronto) for me, maybe try looking at where I am and what I am trying to do, and what I am willing to do. I am not some 20 year old kid that expects the world of the car, but it would be nice to have it perform a little better and have better drivability.

XBreed,

I don’t post much, as I tend to study all of the Tech Nuggets that are constantly being thrown out on this forum. So, I’m not going to offer you an opinion, as it’s more of an observation (if anything)? And while I may be guilty of “Pre-Judging” this scenario? In that, as soon as I saw your thread title, I instinctively knew exactly what the outcome of this thread might could be? And low and behold, my intuition was spot on.

The issue is that you have literally drawn out what amounts to an “ALL STAR CAST” in response to your request for help. Which in my opinion is, well, it’s rather unfortunate! In that, it is scenarios just such as this, that the people (with all of the knowledge) are slowly but surely refusing to answer stuff on the board anymore!

The reason this is so aggravating to see is because when people (in the know) supply answers (to those of us who don’t), and we refuse to comply with what they’re saying? Then, one day these folks are just going to say fire truck it and they will stop posting altogether! And that just drives me nuts, as I greatly appreciate all of the people on this board (who readily offer up their help)!

XBreed, you can get upset with me, for pointing out the obvious?

-OR-

You can look back at the folks who have answered your thread here! And man, if I had all of these Cats respond to one of my threads? Then, I’m pretty sure that we could solve all the worlds problems, as that is the kind of fire power that you have on here!

So, please don’t get upset with my message! As I too am merely trying to help! Because the reality is that chances are good that your answer has already been supplied in this thread. Unfortunately, you have to be willing to do what is being asked of you? Otherwise, you’ll become another victim? And yet, no one in life is a victim! That is, at least not if we aren’t willing to allow it! Therefore, I’d gently ask that you review the comments in your all star thread and heed the advice! Seriously, look at the list of All Stars here:

forcefed3.8’s (think stock block 8’s)

Pronto (total, total wealth of knowledge)

mikestertwo (very well versed)

3-5.0 (always offering helpful advice)

1986 Buick GX1 (super nice guy that knows his stuff)

TurboTGuy (Arizona’s witty wonder)

NY Twin Turbo (super nice / knowledgeable guy - killer car)

dankGN (extremely knowledgeable and helpful)

Chuck Leeper (Mr. Leeper has probably forgotten more about these cars than we will ever know)

captndave737 (always helpful / knowledgeable)

Anthony P (again knowledge and nice guy)

MichaelEvans (same here helpful, helpful)

A2000RICH (none other than Mr. Richard Clark himself)! >

Bison (another legend of Turbo Buick dictionary type knowledge)

And while I don’t know of Mr. ScottHeidinger as much, however, I’ve seen him contributing quite a bit and he’s always being helpful.

XBreed, you may not believe this, however, I’m actually a very nice guy. Which is why I’m trying to point out what’s right in front of you! And man, my grand father’s favorite saying used to be; “Son, GOD gave you two eyes, two ears, and only one mouth for a reason, and if you want to get anywhere in life. Then, you’ll learn to use them in that order too!” That was some of the best advice I ever got! And hopefully you’ll contemplate that one before you respond here?

Either way, you can be angry with me all you want. However, please take heed to some of the living legends that have responded in your thread! As they’ve almost assuredly given you the answer you seek, all you have to do is to work though it!




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[Pronto]

You state the engine was rebuild by a professional. If they chose the cam, they should have matched the springs to it and set up the geometry. If they didn't choose the cam then they should have at least tested the springs to see if they spec out for the cam. If you don't know what springs are in there, you need to pull one and get it tested. If the spring is too weak you will make hp.
To check the MAF, see post 11.
You don't want belittling but it seems like you don't want to hear the answers.

 

[ScottHeidinger]

You state the engine was rebuild by a professional. If they chose the cam, they should have matched the springs to it and set up the geometry. If they didn't choose the cam then they should have at least tested the springs to see if they spec out for the cam. If you don't know what springs are in there, you need to pull one and get it tested. If the spring is too weak you will make hp.
To check the MAF, see post 11.
You don't want belittling but it seems like you don't want to hear the answers.

He meant to say if your springs are too weak you will NOT make hp.


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[Pronto]

Unfortunately the "edit" goes away too soon and there's no chance to fix an error...

 

[Jerryl]

. . . .
You don't want belittling but it seems like you don't want to hear the answers.

Have you thought that just maybe . . He is waiting for answers he likes. I am sure more than a few are thinking: Why bother?

If one of these guys charged the $150/hr diagnostic shop rate for the same factual advice provided, I bet it wouldn't be considered belittling.

 

[IrvJr]

Is the 212/212 cam a roller? If i recall correctly its not spooling up quick?