Looking for help, not to belittling...

Thanks for pointing all of this out. First off I am asking for help to figure out why it is not running the way it should. You want to help but you don't have the time to read what is done, . . . .
Don't take this the wrong way but it starting to feel like you didn't read much of the advice either, or you didn't understand the explanation, or value of the feedback.
Looks like all you got is the 3.42 ratio.
 
Is the 212/212 cam a roller? If i recall correctly its not spooling up quick?

First thing I would do is get rid of the 3.73s. Depending on the type of rear end, I would get something close to 3.42.

Fast engine ramp up is good for a natural aspiration engines but not for a turbo engine.

Our engines need to perform extra leverage to keep help the boost numbers.
 
I have an 87 WE4 and I am trying to figure out why it does not have the power

The rear end was just rebuilt and I put in 373s.

I appreciate any and all help. Again, I would prefer to keep the opinions out of the thread. Thanks guys.

Jerryl
 
First thing I would do is get rid of the 3.73s. Depending on the type of rear end, I would get something close to 3.42.

Fast engine ramp up is good for a natural aspiration engines but not for a turbo engine.

Our engines need to perform extra leverage to keep help the boost numbers.


Why'd you quote me?
 
Sorry have not been over the five pages that this had become. It would might have been easier to.
 
Ok guys. I got upset because the gentle man that pointed everything out seems very knowledgeable but he did not read that I have been doing everything requested of me. I have been getting every bit of info I can on my car. The part that I was working on when this all went down hill was to get a powerlogger and a WB 02 set up so I can get even more data. I want to figure out everything I can so I can fix my car. I am not looking for the answers I want to hear, I am not expecting my car to be a 10 second car, and I am not picking what I read. I have paid close attention to everything everyone has said. Pronto has been extremely helpful and I have been reading the website that he gave me trying to learn more. All I asked before this got way off track was if TT makes a decent WB O2 or not.
As for the engine, I asked for the 212/212 cam. It is not a roller. One of my first post stated that I think that may be part of the problem. This engine was rebuilt 9 years ago (only about 2500 miles on it in that time) and I was not told if the builder tested the springs. He came recommended as a builder of engines and said he understood these cars so that is why he built it. People then started asking for numbers and that is what I have been working with and on. I understand the 3.73 gears are tall for this car, now. I will have to see if I can afford to have them switched, otherwise they will just have to wait and I will have to live with the performance I get from them for now. I still have not had a chance to crawl under the car to check out the converter. I am on vacation and away from the car for the next week and a half. I will check the MAF but I will also be looking into buying a translator and an LT1 MAF.
I really do appreciate all of the help and I am sorry for getting upset. Prior to this time, when I have tried to get help it goes south fast and very few seem to want to help. This time I have received a ton of help and I have learned a lot. Again, the most recent thing I was asking for help on was something I was told to do and that is buy a powerlogger and a WB kit, so that is what I am trying to do, just need to know which WB kit to get. I believe it was Pronto that suggested it. Michael Evans I know you have given me a link to look at and I have not yet. I also know you have one for sale, I was thinking new may be better for me at this point.
 
You state the engine was rebuild by a professional. If they chose the cam, they should have matched the springs to it and set up the geometry. If they didn't choose the cam then they should have at least tested the springs to see if they spec out for the cam. If you don't know what springs are in there, you need to pull one and get it tested. If the spring is too weak you will make hp.
To check the MAF, see post 11.
You don't want belittling but it seems like you don't want to hear the answers.
I have been listening to everything you have told me and answering every question you have asked that I know the answer to. I will look into the springs more, I do not have the answers for that. I will reread post 11. I got upset with Bison because many of his suggestions were already being covered or worked on and I asked about a WB which was a suggestion but then I felt like I was getting attacked because I will not take the advice that has been given. I have tried to update this post as I get more answers. I'm not sure how I can do that any faster. Before Bison gave his advice, I was working through the numbers I got on my SM and you and others had helped with that. I learned about adjusting the IAC and the TPS which had never been done, did that and reported back. If this is a thread that needs to die then I will let it go and reread everything again and again but I keep updating it with what I find from what I have read. As I work on things I may forget to check something, like the MAF. Bison recommended it and I was not sure how to check it, I stated if someone told me how I would do that. You did that for me and I will check it when I am around the car next.
Thank you for all the help and I hope that I continue to receive help because I know it will help my car out a ton. All of you guys are very knowledgeable and I am trying to soak it all in.
 
Ok guys. I got upset because the gentle man that pointed everything out seems very knowledgeable but he did not read that I have been doing everything requested of me. I have been getting every bit of info I can on my car. The part that I was working on when this all went down hill was to get a powerlogger and a WB 02 set up so I can get even more data. I want to figure out everything I can so I can fix my car. I am not looking for the answers I want to hear, I am not expecting my car to be a 10 second car, and I am not picking what I read. I have paid close attention to everything everyone has said. Pronto has been extremely helpful and I have been reading the website that he gave me trying to learn more. All I asked before this got way off track was if TT makes a decent WB O2 or not.
As for the engine, I asked for the 212/212 cam. It is not a roller. One of my first post stated that I think that may be part of the problem. This engine was rebuilt 9 years ago (only about 2500 miles on it in that time) and I was not told if the builder tested the springs. He came recommended as a builder of engines and said he understood these cars so that is why he built it. People then started asking for numbers and that is what I have been working with and on. I understand the 3.73 gears are tall for this car, now. I will have to see if I can afford to have them switched, otherwise they will just have to wait and I will have to live with the performance I get from them for now. I still have not had a chance to crawl under the car to check out the converter. I am on vacation and away from the car for the next week and a half. I will check the MAF but I will also be looking into buying a translator and an LT1 MAF.
I really do appreciate all of the help and I am sorry for getting upset. Prior to this time, when I have tried to get help it goes south fast and very few seem to want to help. This time I have received a ton of help and I have learned a lot. Again, the most recent thing I was asking for help on was something I was told to do and that is buy a powerlogger and a WB kit, so that is what I am trying to do, just need to know which WB kit to get. I believe it was Pronto that suggested it. Michael Evans I know you have given me a link to look at and I have not yet. I also know you have one for sale, I was thinking new may be better for me at this point.

It sounds like you are on the right track now, and more than likely you have some heavy lifting to do.

You might consider advertising your rear end for a stock swap? Just make sure you don’t get a smaller / non Turbo Buick rear axle is all, but, it can’t hurt to ask if anybody is looking for one with 3.73’s, as you never know where those guys with those whimpy LS Motors are lurking (that’s a joke of course). But, somebody may be willing to swap you?

The same may go for the cam as well, as you may find someone who can use yours and swap you for something a little closer to stock? Unless you plan on opening up the motor, that is.

This is just an opinion, however, the 30 years old technology of a Stock MAF (on a modified car) is almost a hopeless cause! I have stock MAF sitting on my shelf that worked flawlessly (until I upgraded the fuel system)! And switching to an LS1 MAF and translator was the answer and I’m talking like night and day answer.

There are Three (3) Rules to our cars, and they are COMBO, COMBO, COMBO! Meaning you have to have a Combo that works in unison with each other, not a bunch of components that work against one another. And that’s what you need to focus on for now is getting a good working combo going. And then the beast will be back!


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The 212 cam is not a huge issue. It's not ideal for unported heads but it shouldn't totally kill your performance. It will move the powerband higher. You don't have a turbo that can take advantage of the high rpm and the heads won't flow well enough at the higher rpm. My friend went 10.2 with that cam and ported heads and 64/66 turbo etc. I would verify the timing and test the springs and lifter preload. The converter has to have more stall than stock for it. It will also help if go with a larger turbo later. Go back to the 3.42s.
 
The 212 cam is not a huge issue. It's not ideal for unported heads but it shouldn't totally kill your performance. It will move the powerband higher. You don't have a turbo that can take advantage of the high rpm and the heads won't flow well enough at the higher rpm. My friend went 10.2 with that cam and ported heads and 64/66 turbo etc. I would verify the timing and test the springs and lifter preload. The converter has to have more stall than stock for it. It will also help if go with a larger turbo later. Go back to the 3.42s.
From the paperwork I have the heads have been "ported" I do not know what that means exactly. Should I pull the motor and go through all this stuff again? my driving season will be coming to a rapid end here in about a month and a half. A converter is on my radar but I wasn't sure and that is why I came on here. I will look into a bigger turbo eventually but that's not in the pocket book right now. And I will try to get back to the 3.42s. If the heads aren't ported would it be better to swap cams too? or have the heads ported and stick with the 212?
 
As Pronto said the cam at this time is not that big of a deal. I think your money would be better spent on 3.42 gears, converter, and turbo as money permits.
 
Xbreed. It mainly needs octane or alky injection and a ton more boost to run hard. People deep in the 12s with stock turbos have boost near 30 psi with chip to match.
 
You don't have to pull it apart to check the valve springs and lifter preload. If they have some bowl work then they might be useable for now. If you not looking for every hp then stick to the basics. Those gears got to go though.
 
Ok I will focus on getting the tune on the engine dialed in and work on the gears. Still wondering if Turbo Tweak makes a good WB O2 setup? I am planning on ordering the power logger soon and would like to do the WB at the same time.
 
Ok I will focus on getting the tune on the engine dialed in and work on the gears. Still wondering if Turbo Tweak makes a good WB O2 setup? I am planning on ordering the power logger soon and would like to do the WB at the same time.


He sells the AEM brand Wideband O2 gauge. IIRC it comes with everything you need except a gauge pod.
 
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