Manual low (1st)...

[S10xGN]

Hi Guys!

I tried putting my shifter in manual low today and found a pretty disturbing problem. The car started bogging down and as I gave it throttle it bogged even worse (seems like it's in 2 gears at the same time). Could this be an internal issue? I remember checking the shifter cable pin-to-shifter quadrant in each hole in every gear and don't recall any mismatch. All other (manual) gears and drive work fine.

 

[russgoodman]

I had been having some trans issues as well. This is a quote from Lonnie Diers from another thread I started - it sounds similar to your problem.


"Sounds like the 3rd clutch is holding. Just done a trans last month. The 3rd clutch was stuck together 2nd gear band was smoked. The guy had been driving the car like that for over a year. Said the same thing he never felt it shift. One day he put trans in manual first and notice it was locked up like a trans brake. "

When I installed my converter, I guess I didn't get the shifter adj exact so I couldnt put mine in 1, but Ive got powerlogger files and all sorts of other data that agrees with his statement.

 

[S10xGN]

Well, everything works fine - except - when you put it in manual low. That said, it's either a cable, linkage, or hydraulic problem. I'd like to know if there's anything internal that - could - be causing this problem before I start bugger-hunting...

 

[turbo nasty]

Your column linkage rod could be worn and not allowing man low to be be fully actuated via the shifter.

Put the car in 1st and the grab the column and see if you can turn it a little more as it may not quite be getting there.

If it goes then, maybe the shifter rod may need a little adjustment

 

[S10xGN]

Guess I need to include more info... B&M black diamond cable shifter with 4 speed internals connected to a stock 200R4 shift quadrant. My builder (Jake Shoemake) says to change the accumulator housing. When I'm able to, I'll recheck the shifter alignment and if it's not right, I'll pull the pan and swap "said" part. I don't recall having this issue before, so the housing could be the problem...

 

[85ha]

If your linkage at trans is dead on with shifter in man low you prob have internal failure. The only diff from regular drive position and 1st is apply of low rev clutch. In drive the forward clutches and low sprag are holding. In man low the low clutch is also applied. That clutch commonly fails. It is also applied in rev so you may want to "goose" the throttle in rev and check for slip or bind

 

[S10xGN]

Jake (who built it) says "I would change the accumulator housing. It's under the pan, 3 bolts. Used from a trans shop." Not being a trans guru, can I ASSume that the part he refers to is circled in red? Does anyone have an extra I could buy? What should I look for on removal of the old part...crack? cut o-ring? missing parts?

It might be awhile before I can get to it, but I'd like to have the part "in hand" before the fluid bath...

Thanks!

 

[85ha]

The accumulator housing "3 bolt cover circled in pic" is only used for cushioning the 1-2 shift. will not cause your prob. In your pic look straight down where the opening in the case is you can see low clutch pack. make sure you can see lining on clutch plates. Also your tcc sol is on backwards. the notch cut out by bolt is supposed to be on tv cable side facing v.b.

 

[quickt]

The 1-2 accumulator if its one with a check ball can leak past the internal check ball and apply the band when in manual 1st. With the low clutch holding in manual low and the band on it will bind up. 1 indicator that its the band holding is the fact that you can power threw it and the car will move. If it was direct clutch you can not power threw like transbrake. The other problem that can happen. Oil from accum circuit can leak past the pin or piston seal and get into the 2nd circuit. Replace the 1-2 housing or just block the feed hole in the housing.

 

[S10xGN]

The 1-2 accumulator if its one with a check ball can leak past the internal check ball and apply the band when in manual 1st. With the low clutch holding in manual low and the band on it will bind up. 1 indicator that its the band holding is the fact that you can power threw it and the car will move. If it was direct clutch you can not power threw like transbrake. The other problem that can happen. Oil from accum circuit can leak past the pin or piston seal and get into the 2nd circuit. Replace the 1-2 housing or just block the feed hole in the housing.

Lonnie,

Thanks for the explanation! Unfortunately, it'll be late next month before I get around to checking on it (taking care of my back now, then a 2 week vacation).

Is it safe to drive as long as I don't shift manually?

I'll post back after I get the pan off and have a look...

Thanks!

 

[S10xGN]

Well, it's been 14 months and I'm just now getting around to rectifying this situation. :redface: Went to start on it today and popped my calf muscle pushing it into the garage, so it may even be a few more days. It took me 20 minutes to find this post!

 

[S10xGN]

OK, got the pan dropped, fluid was clean with minimal clutch material. Checked out the shift quadrant and it's perfectly aligned *except* in park where it could stand to go a tad further. I have pix on HotRodders.com, don't know if they'll upload here due to size limits. Also removed the 1-2 accumulator and found nothing suspicious looking, the bore was smooth and the piston moved freely.

The only questions: my housing is of the 1st design and I'm not sure it'll work with the spacer plate from Chris's kit? And I thought I'd read somewhere that the 700R4 guys are using a round (o-ring) seal instead of the square cut seal?



Since I'm not finding anything that would indicate a cross-leak, I'm wondering if I should just plug & gut the housing and put it back like that?

 

[KL Mallender]

Can you post a picture of the manual valve from the valve body? it slides right out and is what the "S" link hooks to.

Kevin.

 

[S10xGN]

Can you post a picture of the manual valve from the valve body? it slides right out and is what the "S" link hooks to.

Kevin.

Kevin, I'm a retard! I cannot figure how to get the valve out (actually, the S-link) without removing the valve body. Of course, it being 35° in the garage may have had something to do with my intelligence or lack thereof...

 

[KL Mallender]

Kevin, I'm a retard! I cannot figure how to get the valve out (actually, the S-link) without removing the valve body. Of course, it being 35° in the garage may have had something to do with my intelligence or lack thereof...

It doesn't take 35 degrees to confirm I'm stupid, everytime I lay on a creeper I see stars, lol

I'm wondering if you have the StageRight manual valve inside your transmission but without the proper mods done to the low/reverse overun valve, just a thought.
You might have a transbrake kit already in and just not know it.
If you can take a picture of the valve extending out of the valve body while in Park, I'll be able to tell if this is your problem, no need to take it all down just yet.

Kevin.

 

[S10xGN]

Kevin,

Here are pix, it was a bone-stock '85 CQ that Jake put a billet forward drum, billet servo, and Chris' recalibration kit in. So, that valve 'should' be stock...

 

[KL Mallender]

Yeah, that's a stocker. so that eliminates my first thought possibility.

The next step would be to take down the valve body to check for missplaced check balls(the ones in bathtubs).

Then would be to inspect the 4th accumulator in the case, a cross leak into the overdrive clutch circut would cause a tie-up if the overrun clutch is on(D3-2-1).
Good luck,

Kevin.

 

[S10xGN]

Yeah, that's a stocker. so that eliminates my first thought possibility.

The next step would be to take down the valve body to check for missplaced check balls(the ones in bathtubs).

Then would be to inspect the 4th accumulator in the case, a cross leak into the overdrive clutch circut would cause a tie-up if the overrun clutch is on(D3-2-1).
Good luck,

Kevin.

Thanks, Kevin. I'm gonna put this thing back together with the 1-2 accumulator 'delete' and see how it drives. I'll bookmark this thread in case I need it for reference later...

 

[S10xGN]

Yup! :biggrin: That fixed it just fine, no more binding in manual low. Shifts don't even seem much harder without the accumulator functioning.