Max effort stage II with carb

[Alky V6]

Yes, what is your present installed height? Are your locks and retainers at zero, or are you using any + or - .050" components?

 

[Alky V6]

For an installed height of 1.900", a Manley Professional valve spring looks good for your application. I've heard some amazing things about these springs at the track. My next set will be Manley.

For yours:
Part No. 22438-16. Advertised pressures achieved after springs have been compressed solid three times.
Type: double w/damper
Application: drag race, H-11 tool steel
Size OD/ID: 1.625", .775"
Pressures: 328 @ 1.900", 806 @ 1.200"
Coil bind: 1.090"
Rate (lbs./in.): 682
Super 7 Ti retainer: 23669
10 Ti retainer: 23654 (std.), 23655 (+.100")

I personally prefer the Super 7 arrangement, but I know the 10 has its place with the really high spring pressures.

 

[buickstage II]

For an installed height of 1.900", a Manley Professional valve spring looks good for your application. I've heard some amazing things about these springs at the track. My next set will be Manley.

For yours:
Part No. 22438-16. Advertised pressures achieved after springs have been compressed solid three times.
Type: double w/damper
Application: drag race, H-11 tool steel
Size OD/ID: 1.625", .775"
Pressures: 328 @ 1.900", 806 @ 1.200"
Coil bind: 1.090"
Rate (lbs./in.): 682
Super 7 Ti retainer: 23669
10 Ti retainer: 23654 (std.), 23655 (+.100")

I personally prefer the Super 7 arrangement, but I know the 10 has its place with the really high spring pressures.

i love your input Don,
installed height is 2.000 +/- 0.005
i have the super 7 locks
any reason for a spring with the damper?

 

[Alky V6]

i love your input Don,
installed height is 2.000 +/- 0.005
i have the super 7 locks
any reason for a spring with the damper?

No reason. That particular spring package calls for one.
If you prefer not to use a damper, then the Manley Nextek 221447 or 221447P looks good. They are a triple spring and would work with your 2.000" installed height.

 

[buickstage II]

No reason. That particular spring package calls for one.
If you prefer not to use a damper, then the Manley Nextek 221447 or 221447P looks good. They are a triple spring and would work with your 2.000" installed height.

i will call around for price and availability on all the springs, i guessing you have tried a few different spring combinations Don?

looking at trying a NGK bpr6efy-9 (its a v groove electrode)
any thoughts? i don't seen the need for race plugs

also any thoughts for exhaust system with N/A motor?

cheers simon

 

[J-B Racing]

i will call around for price and availability on all the springs, i guessing you have tried a few different spring combinations Don?

looking at trying a NGK bpr6efy-9 (its a v groove electrode)
any thoughts? i don't seen the need for race plugs

also any thoughts for exhaust system with N/A motor?

cheers simon

Just don`t focus only on the Springs to solve this problem. Their is more to it than that...:smile:

 

[buickstage II]

Just don`t focus only on the Springs to solve this problem. Their is more to it than that...:smile:

im thinking the springs are a big part of it since the spring rate is only 494lb/in. as we all know there are so many vitial parts to a N/A motor, just would like to have as many things as possible to try when i go on the dyno soon!
definately open to all other suggestions!
but valve springs here we come!
things to try; plugs, lighter oil, without pipes, timing, different carb, mixture, springs, octane booster?


cheers Simon

 

[BlownV6]

Simon, what diameter are your springs?? I would tend to go for a spring that will fit your retainers , valve spring pockets , etc without getting into addition expense. Im with you and others on here Im thinking there is more than just a spring issue but I think you will be well advised to get that fixed before trying to turn anymore RPM. I cant seem to find your dyno sheet , does the air fuel ratio drop as you get to 5800?? That would be an indicator that the valves are floating, if not then Im thinking thats not it yet!! Mike

 

[J-B Racing]

im thinking the springs are a big part of it since the spring rate is only 494lb/in. as we all know there are so many vitial parts to a N/A motor, just would like to have as many things as possible to try when i go on the dyno soon!
definately open to all other suggestions!
but valve springs here we come!
things to try; plugs, lighter oil, without pipes, timing, different carb, mixture, springs, octane booster?


cheers Simon

Another Carb for sure... Do the Holley Calculator ( C.I x RPM = CFM )
Holley or Barry Grant...etc..Double Pumper all the way...

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Another Carb for sure... Do the Holley Calculator ( C.I x RPM = CFM )
Holley or Barry Grant...etc..Double Pumper all the way...

Do you really think that the carb should change? I would think it would bog to much out of the hole with anything else as it sits, maybe if the valvetrain problem is sorted out.

A.j.

 

[J-B Racing]

Do you really think that the carb should change? I would think it would bog to much out of the hole with anything else as it sits, maybe if the valvetrain problem is sorted out.

A.j.

I would never used Vac Sec. carb. I have tested this years over years and never liked them. It will make a noticeable difference I am sure in solving some of this problem.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I would never used Vac Sec. carb. I have tested this years over years and never liked them. It will make a noticeable difference I am sure in solving some of this problem.

Hmm..... want to start a post on the subject? ive always felt the same about mech secondary carbs.... teach me what i dont know!

I wonder how a Rons Toilet would run on this engine?

A.j.

 

[J-B Racing]

O.K I done with this thread...
I done my part to help, now it`s up to the Einsteins to continue...

 

[Alky V6]

I agree with everyone. There's more to this problem than just springs. Fix the springs first, then see what you have.

With his present stall and gearing, I would expect some bogging with M/S. Worth a try though.

 

[Alky V6]

Ahhh, come on. Don't be like that. You always have good input. Makes everyone think.

 

[unboostedV6]

Just adding opinions... ANY carburetor will require some tuning on one of these engines. Given equal pressure drop and fuel curve, a V/S and a DP will make equal power. Throttle response and ET incrementals are a different story. Did you get any Air/Fuel #'s from the dyno? Maybe it went pig rich OR lean. Either way could easily kill 40 hp without blowing it up. Could be as simple as a jet change...I wouldn't dare discount a spring problem as there hasn't been any mention here of how old the springs are, nor of valve size or material. Greg

 

[buickstage II]

Just adding opinions... ANY carburetor will require some tuning on one of these engines. Given equal pressure drop and fuel curve, a V/S and a DP will make equal power. Throttle response and ET incrementals are a different story. Did you get any Air/Fuel #'s from the dyno? Maybe it went pig rich OR lean. Either way could easily kill 40 hp without blowing it up. Could be as simple as a jet change...I wouldn't dare discount a spring problem as there hasn't been any mention here of how old the springs are, nor of valve size or material. Greg

i have heard if a v/s carb isn't set up right then i can change the way it comes on the cam right? im running 69 in the primary and 81 in the secondary (i think?)

this is the link for the car pics and dyno results
Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

springs have done dyno time only!
PSI Springs CT1541ML Dual
1.510" OD
0.790" inner ID
240lbs@2.030
494 lb/in
.100" retainer step
1.180" coil bind

xceldyne titanium spring caps

manley super 7 retainers

looking at K-Motion springs
K-1000H springs
265# @ 2.000
700 lb/in.

 

[unboostedV6]

What did you change between the runs on 1/2 and the run on 1/4?...The air/fuel got much richer and the power didn't fall off a cliff. Overall power looks pretty low. Are the secordaries opening? GB

 

[buickstage II]

What did you change between the runs on 1/2 and the run on 1/4?...The air/fuel got much richer and the power didn't fall off a cliff. Overall power looks pretty low. Are the secordaries opening? GB

GB, the barrometer pressure at canberra was 950 and where i tuned it was at 1002, when i first started it the plugs fouled almost instantly, i leaned the idle by a quarter on all for screws and it was still real dossile so i leaned the primary jets by 2, 71 back to 69. inspected the plugs and there was lots of carbon on the plugs, from lots of un burnt fuel? the first run on the dyno is the graph with 3 horsepower recordings, the a/f on the primarys was high 13's then secondarys 13.0:1, after that i changed the primary's again from 69's to 67's then for some reason the a/r did not really change on the primary's but the a/f when the secondarys opened was alot more smooth, however the a/f was more rich! i don't understand?

also all power runs were done in shoot out mode (WOT)

as for the power dropping off, the qualifying was with the 6000rpm chip and we changed it to a 7000rpm chip the try and see what else may have been happening.

as Mike said, if the valve's were floating the a/f ratio would change? is this what i can see when it was reved to to 7000 rpm?

Simon

 

[Alky V6]

Your link isn't working. I get directed right back to this thread.