More on the GS Nats, complaints??? The Buick "thing" in general

[Hyper]

ouch

" Further, if you are asking about monies for the event, not racer's payouts, it is really none of your business as an attendee or even club member"

That is what I am talking about, Call the GSCA you will get the same answer unless you work for the IRS

 

[JRSGN]

Nick,

your attiude is exacly why your club is down on it's membership.

There is no spite here, just asking why.

the payout, Who is the Guy that handles it??

You wan't people to attend,BUt when theres questions about whats going on you get like were bothering you.

And if you think I'm wrong just read your last post..

Also if you think my question are outta line or attacking someone Show me where.

Jim

 

[Nashty]

I wasn't bashing with my first comments, just making some suggestions. Re-read them on the first page.

Add some more stuff to the Nats and get more vendors. Holley is right there, why don't they send over a trailer? GSCA should be trying to get us some more ink or TV time. Why hasn't a show from TNN been down there? That would drive participation up.

It is insanely expensive to participate though.

The cheapest way to go is to pre-register for your first day's attendance only. That buys you one ticket and registers you. You save $25 on the registration. Then if it rains on a day, you don't have to buy the ticket to race.

The most glaring thing about it to me is it is so chaotic. Get some method of communication going that works.

Add a dyno day, burnout contest & bikini contest.

 

[kenmosher]

<*dangles his toe in shark infested water*>

Here's my take ... the word "club" is probably causing part of the missed expectations.

I think the GSCA should be viewed as a business ... for your membership dues of $35/yr you get:

• 6-8 issues of the GS Xtra magazine
• Preferred rates at the GS Nationals
• Ability to belong to a local GSCA chapter (which is usually a club in the common definition of the word)
• A network of Buick specific vendors and products endorsed by the GSCA

Beyond that, it's like any other nonpublic "for profit" business ... unless you sit on the Board, you don't have access to tax records, P&L, Financial statements, etc. You are pretty much a customer (not a bad thing, just the way it is)

Despite that statement, I think the GSCA has been very successful in fostering a sense of community and a lot of people have donated time, energy, and resources (including running events, contributing information to the Xtra, and sharing with other Buick folks). That's very "unbusinesslike" (in a good way) and I think it is confusing this issue?

Another perspective is that Car Craft and Hot Rod both sponsor events and publish a magazine ... it is actually very similar in some ways, but they don't share financials or take input on how to run an event, yet are very successful. Nick's example of NHRA (or for that matter IHRA) is a good one ... talk about a lot of "member" money flowing through those organizations!

So... I for one, prefer to look at it in the above light and feel that I spend money on dumber things and get a fair value for my money, as far as the club is concerned.

As far as the Nationals are concerned, I'm not made of money (as my wife reminds me! ), but for a specialty event catering to our interests it's a bargain (compared to the $50-75 just to spectate at an NHRA event!) and I've had fun since 1990.

Maybe not a popular opinion, but just another voice in the crowd.

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by JRSGN
Nick,

your attiude is exacly why your club is down on it's membership.

There is no spite here, just asking why.

........Also if you think my question are outta line or attacking someone Show me where. Jim

Guess my post was not specific enough. Jim, I answered your comments then added the last paragraph as a general comment not directed at you, but the "attitude" of some other posts.

I just get tired of hearing complaints about petty items that are picking on the club and its event. Other similar events, especially for marque brands, [GTO, Mopar,etc.] and not even close to ours in many ways and usually more expensive.

A few years ago when I thought some things could be improved, I asked, and ended up being a "staff volunteer" for the past few years. No announcement was made for help in announcing or other jobs, members just come forward at times.

The issue of having a GSCA "rep" at the gate is not pratical. My point here is if there is a question before or during the meet, someone can be found to help.

My attitude is not why membership is down. I have been helping for years like I said, and only seen a very few people with a problem [attitude] we could not overcome. Just my "overzeallous" feelings towards the club and the unreasonable request sometimes are not properly said by me. Hard to get the proper feelings communicated in writing when they are passionate!

This year the event organization has been greatly improved by dividing the logistics part and the operation/scheduling between 2 capable people. Lots of attendees thought this worked very well.

Ken's post put some items in perspective much better than I tried. My comments are my own and do not represent the club's. Want to know their's, contact them. I do know they listen to member's input. For example, dates of the event - a vote was taken a couple years ago as to when. At this point only the May dates seem workable, as the other track availability dates are in July. Not many want a July meet date!

Race payouts are something that should be easily obtained and I do know they are working on a plan to make them more accessable.

 

[turbo6x2]

Originally posted by kenmosher
<*dangles his toe in shark infested water*>

Here's my take ... the word "club" is probably causing part of the missed expectations.

I think the GSCA should be viewed as a business ... for your membership dues of $35/yr you get:

• 6-8 issues of the GS Xtra magazine
• Preferred rates at the GS Nationals
• Ability to belong to a local GSCA chapter (which is usually a club in the common definition of the word)
• A network of Buick specific vendors and products endorsed by the GSCA

Beyond that, it's like any other nonpublic "for profit" business ... unless you sit on the Board, you don't have access to tax records, P&L, Financial statements, etc. You are pretty much a customer (not a bad thing, just the way it is)

Despite that statement, I think the GSCA has been very successful in fostering a sense of community and a lot of people have donated time, energy, and resources (including running events, contributing information to the Xtra, and sharing with other Buick folks). That's very "unbusinesslike" (in a good way) and I think it is confusing this issue?

Another perspective is that Car Craft and Hot Rod both sponsor events and publish a magazine ... it is actually very similar in some ways, but they don't share financials or take input on how to run an event, yet are very successful. Nick's example of NHRA (or for that matter IHRA) is a good one ... talk about a lot of "member" money flowing through those organizations!

So... I for one, prefer to look at it in the above light and feel that I spend money on dumber things and get a fair value for my money, as far as the club is concerned.

As far as the Nationals are concerned, I'm not made of money (as my wife reminds me! ), but for a specialty event catering to our interests it's a bargain (compared to the $50-75 just to spectate at an NHRA event!) and I've had fun since 1990.

Maybe not a popular opinion, but just another voice in the crowd.

This is an excellent point... and one I respect. I would like to point out that they do refer to this as a club in some respect, which would lead folks to think their input is warranted.. You never can please all the people all the time and negative comments from either side do nothing to advance the situation. The best part of the nats will always be meeting all the folks that have the same interest as you do and share in your hobby. Not that you can't get this from other Buick events.

 

[Bobtempest]

Originally posted by kenmosher
<*dangles his toe in shark infested water*>

Here's my take ... the word "club" is probably causing part of the missed expectations.

I think the GSCA should be viewed as a business ... for your membership dues of $35/yr you get:

• 6-8 issues of the GS Xtra magazine
• Preferred rates at the GS Nationals
• Ability to belong to a local GSCA chapter (which is usually a club in the common definition of the word)
• A network of Buick specific vendors and products endorsed by the GSCA

Beyond that, it's like any other nonpublic "for profit" business ... unless you sit on the Board, you don't have access to tax records, P&L, Financial statements, etc. You are pretty much a customer (not a bad thing, just the way it is)

Despite that statement, I think the GSCA has been very successful in fostering a sense of community and a lot of people have donated time, energy, and resources (including running events, contributing information to the Xtra, and sharing with other Buick folks). That's very "unbusinesslike" (in a good way) and I think it is confusing this issue?

Another perspective is that Car Craft and Hot Rod both sponsor events and publish a magazine ... it is actually very similar in some ways, but they don't share financials or take input on how to run an event, yet are very successful. Nick's example of NHRA (or for that matter IHRA) is a good one ... talk about a lot of "member" money flowing through those organizations!

So... I for one, prefer to look at it in the above light and feel that I spend money on dumber things and get a fair value for my money, as far as the club is concerned.

As far as the Nationals are concerned, I'm not made of money (as my wife reminds me! ), but for a specialty event catering to our interests it's a bargain (compared to the $50-75 just to spectate at an NHRA event!) and I've had fun since 1990.

Maybe not a popular opinion, but just another voice in the crowd.

Ken,
You are right my toes fear the sharks too! I want to say that I think you are completely correct in all points of your post. I am a member of many large organizations, they do not ask for my input. One usually has input only with small local clubs, not the size of the GSCA. I heard an open invitation over the speakers more than once for input and suggestions to farther improve the event.
I have voiced my opinion DIRECTLY in the past and always felt satisfied with the answer or results. I have always found that going DIRECTLY to a person high on the ladder of an organization nets better results.

I also do agree with doing things to encourage GS guys to show up in greater numbers.

The main thing I agree with is making it more attractive for the vendors to come and set up. I think this is a major part of the event and the more V8 and V6 vendors the better! I believe this area is very important to the event. It should be a winning situation for the members, the event and the vendors. The track was better, the show was given attention this year and next year I think the vendors should be given a look. More vendors will bring more people and everyone will win.

 

[Hyper]

GSCA

Maybe the GSCA should be the BSCA aka Bull $hit club of America.

Like I said and I dont want another battle, If this is a club like it is stated to be and not a company like the NHRA, or the IHRA which is open to all brands of cars, not just buicks. If it is really a club for buick owners and not a business for large profit then the monies for the one and only one event given for the buick people each year should have a report of money taken in and given out.

If the thought that people will get upset if they really new how much money the "inside crew" made off of the event then I can see why you need to hide it. If I knew that the club was on the up and up, unlike it was 10 years ago, I would rejoin today.

If you take care of your people they will take care of you. I have a few questions I would like to know. And yes if it is none of my business then tell me I will not hold a gruge against anyone.

1. What amount of monies was taken in for addmission?

2. What amount was taken in at the gate?

3. what was the cost of the track rental? (I can find out)

4. What was paid out to track workers

5. What % was paid out to the Big Guns(fast cars)? They deserve alott because of there hugh cost.

6. What did the GSCA profit off of the event?

7. What does Richard do for a living?

8. What does he put back into the club?

9. Why dont he pay Nick for his help? And yes you deserve to be paid.

10. Why do I even ask why? The last time I asked this was in 1993, and yes richard hung up the phone on me.

11. Why Does richard not post on this board?

These are just a few, I have many more. I would love for the , Well I "thought it was a club" to be a club again. This is a special club open to only Buick people unlike the NHRA and the IHRA which is a a business for profit open to the public and hold events for all makes all around the country. You know if BG will post a statement of how much they make off of the gs nationals then why cant the GSCA? What are we really hiding? If not a exact figure how about a "ballpark" figure? If you keep increaseing prices and decreasing Public relations you will lose in the end.

I know I sound negetive and I may have spelled some words wrong. I type fast so I dont check behind myself. I do love Buicks and I love what the GS Nationals stand for. I just dont want to be told to shut up if I ask how much money "WE" maded you!!

ouch I think a shark got me.........................................

 

[kenmosher]

<*puts one foot in the water*>

I guess my point is (and I have nothing other than an opinion and I have no say or stake in the GSCA) that it is a "for profit" business. I'm sure someone could look it up, but I think the GSCA is incorporated as a company?

(BTW, there are lots of "GSCA"s, ranging from shooting clubs, to Gordon Setter clubs, to the Georgia School system!)

As such, it's probably run as a business and financial information like that being requested isn't public. If someone wanted to know those types of details about my business, I couldn't reveal it, since it is a private business and the Board would never allow it.

It comes down to the question:

"Do you get appropriate value for your money?"

Just like any other consumer decision (and like WJ has stated ... he doesn't feel that he gets value for his money, so he doesn't join or participate in the GSCA) ... you either pay for the "product" or you save your money. In this case, it's a little different, since there isn't a ton of competative choices (not like buying a T-shirt at Target because Shopko was too expensive on the same shirt! )

NHRA and IHRA are specialist organizations as well, catering to racers at different levels... the fact that the GSCA specializes in Buicks isn't really relevant (in my mind, maybe I misunderstood)...

They let you "join" and be a "member" ... and you pay $75 dues, plus you buy numbers for your car, if you race at the National level, and you pay for trips to the track, and so on. When's the last time you were able to influence a Division meet payout? Or tech rules?

Anyway, I guess I look at it that this is a business, and as long as I get what I think is fair value, I don't need an accounting of the funds. I feel OK with that, but I understand where folks can have different expectations when the word "club" is used.

Not affiliated with the GSCA club. No Buicks were harmed in the typing of this message. Your mileage may vary. Not for resale. Do not read while sleeping...

 

[HRpartsNstuff]

Too busy to read all of this post, but catching the tail end here & just wanted to say a few things:

Had a great time at the Nat's, couldn't imagine life without it.

Yes, prices to attend all week are a bunch, but to compare to our local track Norwalk, they get $15-$35 for entry fees per person depending on the event. That's for the cheap seats too, it's another $20 per person to get a good seat. For those that attended the Nat's at BG, they are ALL good seats! To race, it's $30-$50 a day depending on event. They charge extra for camping, motor homes, etc, etc. To me, the pricing of the biggest & longest event of the year (from what I hear) isn't that bad comparably speaking.

As for not getting to redeem un-used tickets the following year, whether entry or race tickets, seems wrong to me. If you buy the tickets ahead of time & break, you should be able to get some sort of a credit or refund. That would reduce the madness on busy days at the tent, and get way more pre-registrations. It would be really nice to see the registration tent open more hours too, come late & miss the entire day, not encouraging. The event T-shirt tent seems to be manned the whole time, but not the registration tent?? Any way to combine the 2 & save on man/woman power & stay open longer?

As a vendor, I find it strange that you don't get 2 entry tickets per vending space per day. You can't handle a tent that spans 2 or 3 spots with 2 people per day. I had to pay extra for my other helpers on Thurs-Sat.

Not sure what all the sponsor fee goes for, not really my concern. If it helps the event & keeps it all going, great! We did the $250 level last year, and bumped up to the $500 level this year. There was no real noticeable difference between the 2, other than the advertising space in the program got discounts. I only heard our name announced twice the entire event, which to me is a big part of the sponsor pgm. I am sure it was done more than that, but if you can't hear it even way out in the "quiet" vendor area, what good is it? Between the vending fees for the spot, and the sponsor fees, it is quite a bit more expensive than any other event we go to. We usually do better at the Nat's too, so there is an offset that basically makes it worth the extra money. Although, I would have done just as good without the sponsor fee, but want to support it all.

For those that didn't go due to weather reports, your loss. It was probably the most racing I have seen (actually "heard" stuck in vending area most of the time) in a LONG time. The forcasters always make it sound worse than it will ever be, so if they are wrong, it is sunny & no one cares they were wrong. If they say it's not going to rain & they are wrong, we want to shoot them. So... Guess which way they are going to lean on the forcasting... Worse than it really will be.

Lastly, BIG THUMBS UP to the dyno challenge and/or availability at the Nat's! Had one at Norwalk, excellent idea! Also, burnout contest! Great fun there to watch or be in! A bikini contest sounds pretty good too, but might have to do one for both sexes to keep everyone happy.

Bottom line: Don't try to cut corners & reduce prices, PACK the event with MORE FUN! Get Duttweiler & Conley to do a match race / exibition run, or jets, or??? Get more there that brings more people thru the gates. PS- Some of us need Tues so we can actually get there by Wed. or at least a head start on Wed. Never enough time...

I sincerely hope this offended NO ONE, and helped out in some small way.

 

[Hyper]

GSCA

Thanks Ken,

Now since I know that the GSCA is a business and not really a "CLUB" I am happy, It took 10 years to find this out, I asked these same questions back in 93, I also have always thought that the vendors should get a discount if not a "Free" addmission to the track as they are the suppliers of our parts. One quick question though and then I will sit back and watch. Cna anyone tell me for sure one thing?

If the GSCA and the Bowling green event is different in the money department which was stated earlier. Did Richard or the other GSCA board members pay there way into the track and the fee's for the car show? If they are not related then they should pay to.
I thank the vendors for all there suport and all of the buick people for there support. I thank Ken for Turbolink, great product for the money!!. I may join the business opps I mean Club again is some one can tell me if Richard has stop slamming torque tech after 10 years now?? Has he? Really I need to know as I miss the newsletters.

thanks

{on the bank watching for the hit}

 

[sackracing]

i will still go regardless. it is the only buick event i go to, plus it is an hour and a half away. i learned to always pre-register though.
it would be nice to see the faster cars and more vendors, but if it gets too big, parking will suck, there will be less runs to make wed, thurs, and friday, and it will probably be less organized.

 

[Gary]

A "theme" day would be nice at the "Nationals". You know, each day there would be some sort of theme. I think this would add excitement and help enliven the Nats. I'll start off by suggesting a theme for the first day. It would be called "Mini Skirt Eliminator", girl with the shortest skirt gets a prize. I'd let Alan Witter be the judge. He would do a good job.

Gary

 

[EightSecV6]

Originally posted by Gary
I'd let Alan Witter be the judge. He would do a good job.

Gary

I bet Alan would suggest the prize be himself!!!!!!!