MSD Boost Timing Master

[b4black]

I have been considering going with MSD's Boost Timing Master, or BTM, unit. These units retard timing relaitve to the amount of boost pressure. They use an adjustable knob to set the amount of retard per psi of boost. I think this is one of the keys to controlling timing and therefore running more boost (Right Fred? )

There are two models available. The first is a combination MSD 6AL and BTM (Called the MSD 6 BTM). Accoriding to the catalog, it will retard timing 1-3°/psi up to a maximum of 15°. There is also a built in rev limiter.

The other is a stand alone BTM unit. It can retard up to 20°. While it is not a MSD 6AL, it does mention it has a "built-in inductive ignition" which increases the spark output.


The difference in list price is significant. The MSD 6 BTM #6462 is $868 and the BTM alone #5462 is $373. (These suggested list prices are probably double what most distibutors charge.)


I think the BTM is the far better buy. It is capable of greater retard and from what I have read, the GM HEI has plenty of spark, so the MSD 6AL isn't necessary.

Anybody running one of these or something like it? Do they work on CCC ignitions? Anybody running a MSD 6AL without the BTM and did it make a difference?

 

[fc227]

Hello

I am running 6btm , I turn the knob all the way down when running race gas and set it a (.75° per 1#) boost retard when running pump gas.

I like it it work's

Has for spark engery, Unless you spinning that engoine over 6000 rpm the HEI will work reasonably well. Have the gap around .030 on the plug's.

 

[83T]

Rich,

It should work properly with the CCC system, although I can;t say for sure. It can be wired to use the factory HEI. The only thing I have had a problem with (which I don't think will apply for you) is that in really cold weather, the diaphram in the unit has actually frozen, thus giving me no spark retard at all. Drove it like this one day without realizing it (radio on full blast) and ended up with a dead rod bearing.

Fred, do you have any freezing problems with your unit?

 

[fc227]

Well , I didn't drive it much in the winter. But I have heard of that happen.

 

[tony1917]

I use the msd boost timing master #8765 $179.95 with the msd 6al set at 15 degrees retard Run car with VP c16 at 25psi of boost.It's a beautiful thing!!
Tony
DF/SA
NHRA National Record Holder

 

[gunnervirus]

P.A.W. has the MSD 6 BTM for under 400 bucks.

I think I might get one myself

Ben

 

[b4black]

Nothing but good words. I think I'll get one! And I'll go with the universal BTM, #5462, since It don't think I need the MSD 6 ignition with the HEI. Thanks everyone for the input!

Tony - 25 psi. WOW I looked up the #8762 in Summit and $179.95 like you said. The MSD "suggested list" price is $448.80. So if the Universal BTM (#5462) list is $373.20 then hopefully I can find it somewhere for $150. Sounds like a good deal to me.


Note: the #8762 BTM Tony is using is an add-on for the MSD 6 and cannot be used seperately.

 

[b4black]

Originally posted by 83T
The only thing I have had a problem with (which I don't think will apply for you) is that in really cold weather, the diaphram in the unit has actually frozen, thus giving me no spark retard at all. Drove it like this one day without realizing it (radio on full blast) and ended up with a dead rod bearing.

MSD has a Knock Alert. The sensor looks like a stock GM unit and proably screws into the block where the GM one does. It then has a box with multiple LED's and a buzzer. While this won't reatrd timing like a ESC, it will let you know when it knocks. It's part number #8964 and it lists for #328.60, so it's real world price might be reasonable.

Or maybe you could rig a 83/87 ESC controller up without the ECM and use one of the many knock gauges for the TR's. They get their signal from the controller, not the ECM.

 

[fc227]

Question for Tony.

I think I might have asked you this before, But what is the total timing you are running and How much do you pull out 1°:1#, 2°:1# under boost?

I would like to run more timing when no boost is present. But I have mine setup for 30° total and taking 3° out in high gear. running 20-22# boost on C16. and run around 14# boost same setting on pump gas.

 

[tony1917]

msd boost

25psi of boost,wow is right and there may be more to go.That what make this big fat detroit iron go.Boost it till you lose it!This car weights 3860lb and is front wheel drive and it needs a lot of timing to get it going.I will ask my engine builder.Vinney Green,from Greens performance in Red Bank,N,J, your qusetion about the timing numbers,But I think it's at 45 degrees total with the msd at 15 degrees retard under load.Last weekend at the Federal Mogal Div 1 meet at E-Town I went to get a new E.T record,NOT!The dist was loose and had retared to 25 degrees.We have 3 big changes on the car that we have not been able to test out yet.3500 converter,Lock Right Locker for posi,got that trick from Scott North AF/SA Riviera and a new set Hoosier 26x9 slicks We will be launching the car with 5psi or more of boost as long as it still hooks with the Hoosiers. We feel the car should go 13.80,Thats are goal.Ain't motorsports great...

 

[fc227]

Tony one more question. Are you have a problem witha rich bog when you try to leave over 5# boost when the car hooks up.

I Had the problem with the Q-jet @ 4# boost and with the holley it happens to me at around 7# of boost.

 

[b4black]

Found this. Intersting use of a pressure regulator to further control the timing curve at the top end of boost. I guess a relief valve could also be used to prevent any retard at low boosty pressures.

http://www.netma.fi/jouko/saab/performance4.html



Summit has the MSD BTM 5462 for $170.

 

[charlief1]

Another bump for a good thread. The newbys need to read it and it should be at the top so they can.

 

[Ttype83]

Another bump for a good thread. The newbys need to read it and it should be at the top so they can.

I got FC227's when he upgraded to a GN :biggrin:

 

[WkillGS]

Another bump for a good thread. The newbys need to read it and it should be at the top so they can.

I'm a step ahead of you Charlie!....I bought a 5462 on eBay for $100.... it arrived yesterday.:biggrin:
I already have a MSD 6A, so this 5462 will complement it nicely.

New ones are $240 from Summit. Or search eBay for 'MSD Boost' to find the various models.

 

[fc227]

Both are good units , BUT do not trust the dial. I found that my was not linear. I end up using hand pump and pressure gauge and Measuring the actual timing retard.

 

[charlief1]

Thanks for the tip Fred. Been doing a little reading to day and saw some of your old set up. Very nice. I understand why you defected but I'm sorry you did. Some of the info is in the archives so it may come up to the top to help us in the endevers we're trying.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I'm a step ahead of you Charlie!....I bought a 5462 on eBay for $100.... it arrived yesterday.:biggrin:
I already have a MSD 6A, so this 5462 will complement it nicely.

New ones are $240 from Summit. Or search eBay for 'MSD Boost' to find the various models.

Ha im ahead of you with a #6462 and an ESC....

:tongue:

A.j.

 

[mat231v6]

i know this is unrelated but b4black is your car running the stock cam or do you have a aftermarket cam in it. by the way i like your site. keep up the great work.

 

[fc227]

Thanks for the tip Fred. Been doing a little reading to day and saw some of your old set up. Very nice. I understand why you defected but I'm sorry you did. Some of the info is in the archives so it may come up to the top to help us in the endevers we're trying.

The main reason I defected was that I bought the GN for $1000.00 . I would have been a idiot to pass that up. and at the time I did not have the $$$ to do another engine so I pulled it out of the OLDS and installed it in the GN.

I do miss the OLDS.