My 8 month HORROR story. What would you do?

[INEEDAGN]

You have to realize that people that do carry out engines and transmissions deal with comebacks that aren't their fault ALL THE TIME. He might be wrong to assume that it's not his problem but I guarantee he's been bitten in the ass many times by incompetent fucks that think they are mechanics. Makes a person bitter. As I stated before. IF this person knows their way around a Buick V6 as you must have seen before you took it to them, give them a chance to hear it in car and make it right IF it's indeed their screw up. Everyone's human. It's still possible your guy fucked up too.

As a person who's worked doing carry out transmissions I will definitely stay in neutral ground until it's proven who fucked up. Hell the local independent shops were just as bad as the guy in his garage. At least the guy in his garage was humble enough to call and ask a "stupid" question instead of thinking they knew it all.



And this William vs the world shit is getting out of hand. Personally I don't care which of you all is the bigger douche and I doubt the OP does either he just wants his car fixed.

 

[Turbo Archie]

You have to realize that people that do carry out engines and transmissions deal with comebacks that aren't their fault ALL THE TIME. He might be wrong to assume that it's not his problem but I guarantee he's been bitten in the ass many times by incompetent fucks that think they are mechanics. Makes a person bitter. As I stated before. IF this person knows their way around a Buick V6 as you must have seen before you took it to them, give them a chance to hear it in car and make it right IF it's indeed their screw up. Everyone's human. It's still possible your guy fucked up too.

.

^ This, if you think my post had a salty tone...

..

 

[TRICKSIXPA]

I personally think if you came to me for an engine and I had one I had built. Then you wanted to buy it and have someone else install it. That’s where any warrantee or guarantee goes out the door. You can go into any machine shop they will tell you the same thing. No warrantee on the motor due to the application it’s being used for. Most business owners are going to charge you for re examining. If it needs fixing you still need to pay. They most likely will work with you to some degree. In your case that time has pass. Best thing to do is move on and get your car running again. There will not be a cent you will see as restitution after this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chuck Leeper]

^^^ Total

 

[Steve V]

I do carry out transmission and engines...for now....on the engines the entire build is documented with pics. A video is taken on the runstand with oil psi, showing no leaks, no rods hanging out, it's ran 15-20 mins retorqued and shipped. All transmissions are done the same way and air checked videos posted. I talk with the customer explain what their responsibility is and what I will warranty and what I won't. If I make a mistake I make it right, EVEN if I lose my ass. As long as the customer is being reasonable. If not , I have all my documentation lined up. If you follow me on social media you see how I roll. Nothing at all to hide.

 

[A2000RICH]

There are two sides to every story. Here is our side of this story.

Last January Ron Mooney brought his GN engine to my shop for the same reason a thousand plus Grand National owners have been bringing their cars to me for the last 22 years. My shop has an excellent reputation for first class work at fair prices. At any given time there is likely to be from 10 to 20 Grand Nationals in my shop, many of them from different states. 1986 & 1987 Grand Nationals are the only kind of car that we service and we do everything from minor repairs to complete restorations.

Because we are considered to be one of the premier shops for servicing these cars, we are always busy and always have a rather long waiting list for certain services. Unlike other automotive service and restoration shops we have our own machine shop where we do virtually every facet of engine rebuilding. At the time Ron brought his engine to us we had over 20 engines in for complete rebuilds. Typically these engines would have ranged from mild somewhat "stock" builds to all out high performance engines with prices ranging from a few thousand dollars to over 25K.

There are only 4 employees at RCG (Richard Clarks Garage) and only 2 of us actually work on engines. Between both of us we have a collective experience of over 50 years working on this exact type of engine.

Our lead times can vary from several months to a year or more depending on complexity, availability of custom parts and customer input. At no time in 22 years have I ever completed an engine in less than two months and I certainly never commit to a deadline for completion. Unlike typical garages, dealerships or automotive shops that merely assemble engines we are a combination of machine shop, garage and restoration facility that remanufactures and restores engines. On a limited edition car that is over 30 years old and considered an antique vehicle in most states, the variables are almost unlimited. A 3 week completion on an engine build is an outrageous claim. I would not promise that if we had no backlog at all.

We rarely sell partial engines and for good reasons. We take great care in making sure that every part of the engine is done correctly and that is not assured if the engine is not sold as a complete system. With less than five exceptions every engine that has ever left our shop since 1997 has been run on a test stand or dyno for anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour. This allows us to check for proper oil pressure, cooling system functioning, leaks, unwanted noise etc.

Many engine shops decline building these engines since they have a bad reputation for sealing problems and durability due to a rather archaic oiling system. Further to that thought the basic core of the GN engine was first introduced by Buick in 1962 with a design goal of about 140 horsepower. The design was sold only a few years later to an English company that put them in trucks. Buick bought the tooling back during the 1973 oil embargo in order to improve their overall fleet fuel efficiency. By the mid eighties the engines were turbocharged and producing power enough to earn the reputation of being somewhat unreliable if not maintained properly and built to very exacting specifications.

Ron Mooney for whatever reason declined to furnish us with his intake manifold which is necessary to test run the engine. Unlike a simple carbureted engine the manifold of this engine is the foundation for the fuel system, the ignition system and the coolant recirculation from the heads. When we were done with his engine we told Ron that we always feel it necessary to test run the engine before it leaves our facility. Not having all his parts we temporarily assembled his engine with a fully dressed manifold from another engine. The test run went well and there were no problems, no leaks, good oil pressure, and no unwanted noises! As usual we took pictures and a short video of the test run. We sent a quick clip of the video to Ron and arranged a time for him to come and pick up his motor. When Ron came to get his motor I expressed my concern that he was not going to have us install the motor in his car. He assured me that the person doing the work was a personal friend doing him a favor and that he was well qualified since he was a "pro-mod" racer. I told him that even so this is a motor that requires some extra care in startup and that there are a few things that are important.

I clearly told him that since he had experienced a bearing failure in the previous engine that it would be best to bypass or replace the existing oil cooler since it is hard to completely flush the debris left from the previous failure. I told him not to take the oil filter off of the engine until the engine was installed in the car and has actually been started up and run for a while. I told him the oil contained a specific additive that was necessary for these engines----specifically Z-Plus a ZDDP additive. There are numerous sensors on these engines and a single wire left off during installation can have serious consequences. This important step would insure that the oil pump would not have any chance of losing prime causing a dry startup. Ron promptly paid us for the rebuild and we helped him load the motor on his trailer.

About a week or so later we got a phone call saying that the engine had been installed and that it had a "rod knock". We told him that if he would return it to the shop that we would work it into our schedule and that we would fix it. Since I am extremely particular in my engine building and had done a test run of the engine before it left our shop I had serious doubts that we had done anything wrong with the engine build. In this case since we did not install the engine I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I told him that if we find that we did something wrong that it would be repaired at no charge. When it was returned we put it on our engine build schedule since we do not have a "warranty department". A problem like this is extremely rare and out of hundreds of engines I can only think of a few examples where we had to repair a failed engine and they were race track failures. I have never had a "startup" failure. This engine sat in our shop and after a couple weeks Ron called and started complaining that his engine was not being worked on. Since most of my customers are relatively patient I moved his engine to the front of our schedule...

 

[A2000RICH]

Since Ron and his friend were sure the problem was a "rod knock" I started with a check of the rod bearings. Rods will make a knocking sound when the bearings or big end of the connecting rod become damaged or beat out of shape. This increases the clearance from the rod journal and causes the rod to shift position each time the crank rotates and the excess movement creates a knocking sound. While I can break down the bottom end of an engine for rebuild in less than 3 hours. it is a much more tedious task to do this with the thought that you might find nothing wrong and will want to put it back together carefully with the intent of reassembly.

It took me the entire day to take each rod apart and measure and inspect every single rod bearing pair as well as the bottom bearings on the two main center caps. I took pictures of every bearing shell and found that all of them appeared to be in like new condition and within measured specification for thickness to 4 decimal places. None of the mating crank journals showed any signs of damage and measured within new specification. It was clear that this engine did not have a rod knock. I took time to take pictures of each of the rod bearing pairs (12 rod bearings and the 2 lower center main bearings) so I could show them to Ron. I gave Ron color pictures of all 14 bearings. (We will post these pictures at some point tomorrow.) At this point I wondered if there might be something else wrong with the engine that could cause a noise similar to a rod knock. Since we did not do final assembly of the engine I also checked a couple other possible items. I was thinking perhaps while Ron's mechanic was installing the intake manifold he might have dropped a bolt or nut into one of the intake runners or into the lifter galley. I used a miniature camera for a more in depth check. I probed through the throttle body/plenum to inspect the intake runners finding nothing. I also probed the PCV grommet into the lifter galley. I looked through the fuel pump block off plate into the timing chain area. At this point I removed the spark plug from each cylinder and probed them with the miniature camera finding nothing.

At this point I could not imagine that there was anything else internal to the engine that could make a knocking sound so I decided to put the engine back together and put it on the run-in test stand and give it a listen. Normally on our test stand we use a relatively small muffler for convenience but for this test we decided to keep the turbo on the engine since it was attached when it was returned. This made it easy for us to use a large 3 inch down pipe that could be attached to a much larger and than normal muffler. For extra measure we added an additional muffler in series with the first muffler for even less noise.

When we started the engine it exhibited no knocking noise at all. Certainly it made me feel like I wished I had done this before I took the time to take the bottom end of the engine apart and do all the camera probing. At some point in all this effort we noticed that there was a large gap in the rear "china wall" of the motor. China wall is the nickname given to the main rear wall of the block at the rear of the lifter galley. On this type of engine the china wall is sealed with a piece of rubber about 1/4 inch thick that runs the width of the lifter galley. In this case the seal was attached at both ends and was drooping down inside the lifter galley. Since Ron had returned the engine with the manifold attached this error was a mistake of someone involved in final fitment and installation of the engine in the car. Most experienced mechanics would consider this a "rookie" mistake. One thing is certain. If this engine had been left in the car with this seal missing it would have been a major oil leak.

Since we were unable to find anything wrong with the engine we called Ron and told him that his engine was ready to be picked up. He asked what we found wrong with it. I told him that we would discuss it when he came to pick up the motor and that we had left it on the run stand for him to approve before we prep it for shipment. When Ron came to the shop we first showed him the gap in the china wall and he told us to fix it correctly. Then I showed him the pictures of the bearings and told him that I could find no reason the engine was making a knocking noise and that it must be something related to the car such as the accessories or something that was not internal to the engine.

Then we started the engine and let him listen to it running. After a little warm-up I ran it at different speeds all the way from fast idle to about 5k RPM. Lots of rattle that is normal from the injectors and valve train but no knock at all. Since I wanted him to be sure, I actually ran the engine nearly an hour during which time he even recorded the running with his phone. I asked him if he was ok with the way it sounded. He said that he was ok with it. After allowing a little time for the engine to cool down we started removing all the wires, hoses, and fuel lines necessary to run the engine out of the car and helped him load the engine on his car trailer.

While my guys were breaking down the support equipment, I got Ron to the side and reminded him that we had found nothing wrong with the motor and there was no fault on our part. While we had put nearly 2 days work into the motor I would only charge him for one day plus 300 dollars for setting up the run-in stand which takes several hours. He said that was ok but that he did not have the money with him. He said that he would have to go by the bank and get the money. I told him that we were leaving to go to lunch and that he could stop by the diner and pay us and he agreed that would be ok. We left at the same time and near the end of lunch he had still not shown up. I called him on the phone and he said that all he could get from the ATM was 500 dollars and that he would mail us a check when he got home. Having no reason to doubt him I said that would be ok.

After several days and not hearing from him I tried to call him and his phone went immediately to voice mail. Finally I sent him a text message and asked him for the number of his friend that was going to install the engine. He texted me back with the number and I gave the guy a call. I told him that I would like to be present when he did the startup on the motor and if he would give me a call a day in advance I would be there the next day. He seemed somewhat bothered by my call and said the car had been a real headache and that he ran a very successful towing business and maybe he would call. He never called and the next time we have any contact with Ron Mooney he tells us the engine still has a knock.

I told Ron that if he would bring the car to my shop that I would fix whatever was wrong with it. I told him that I was 99% sure that the problem was not internal to the engine but if it was I would fix it no charge. I also told him that if it was not internal to the engine that I would charge him our regular rate. I told him that I was 100%+ certain that I could fix the problem since I am a world class expert on this type of car.

With a few hours phone calls and emails I can get hundreds of support letters from customers that have had positive experiences with my shop. I go out of my way to make sure that my customers are happy with their Grand Nationals. I share the same passion for these cars as my customers and I want all of them to have positive experiences as Grand National owners.

What else can I say? If Ron wants his car fixed all he has to do is bring it to my shop and I will fix it. For some reason he has been adverse to bringing his car to the shop for work. I am willing to go so far as to say that if there is some mystical reason that I cannot make it right I will give him a brand new ---Buick factory fresh ----never installed in a car---1987---vin7 engine---------I have quite a few of them that I have had for 30 years and he can come to the shop and pick which one he wants.



Starting after tomorrow I will post a few positive reviews from happy RCG Customers and will do this for some time. The happy customers outweigh the unhappy ones 100 to 1.

 

[Jerryl]

This thread is starting to look like internet suicide to me. It's a sure way to cut your internet throat. JMO

I do have a new level of respect for RCG though based on the detailed description of events.

 

[TurboTGuy]

WOW!

I am trying to respect Shane's request to stay out, but someone with an axe to grind has a VERY tough road to hoe.

tufbuick, RJC may have just shown your whole hand of cards.

 

[Reapersgbodys]

You took your engine to RCG Incomplete???
No intake?? You visited the shop, witnessed the engine running on the stand?? You were shown that the intake gasket on the “China wall” was installed improperly??? Something that yes, even I have done in my younger years wrenching.
You were showed pictures of entire bottom end disassembled, and no main or rod bearing problem???
I have no dog in this hunt, so this is just my opinion, you took your “engine” not the entire car to the premier GN shop
In the country, witnessed it running properly on the stand, shorted him money, throw some bashing on the forum and refuse to take the car to be fixed properly???
Man, I would be a little grumpy on the phone too, after spending hours and hours to check the internals, put it back on the stand, find an issue with final install of intake, and not get what little money I was asking for time spent to diagnose a noise that can’t be replicated on the stand, then not get paid fully, I would be fuming.
RCG has made the offer to bring the car in and get it fixed properly, I would have jumped on that bandwagon the minute I was asked and not hesitate one bit to pay, once the problem is discovered.
He has stated, his fault, he will fix it, not his fault, pay him to fix it.
I personally think that there was no need to even bring this up in the forum with the options that Richard has stated, take your WHOLE car to RCG, let them fix it.

 

[turbobuick]

Mr. Clark,
While I have been in the TB community since the beginning I do not believe we have ever met and or have done any business?

I would like to say you sir are a CLASS ACT!!!

I posted some simple question to try to help this gentleman without knowing ANYTHING about the situation and he pretty much ignored me leaving me to believe he wanted nothing more than an internet shit slinging fest. Which is apparent at this point.

And he is bitching about being out $4100??? Seriously???? LMAO!!!!!!!

 

[seedling]

Since Ron and his friend were sure the problem was a "rod knock" I started with a check of the rod bearings. Rods will make a knocking sound when the bearings or big end of the connecting rod become damaged or beat out of shape. This increases the clearance from the rod journal and causes the rod to shift position each time the crank rotates and the excess movement creates a knocking sound. While I can break down the bottom end of an engine for rebuild in less than 3 hours. it is a much more tedious task to do this with the thought that you might find nothing wrong and will want to put it back together carefully with the intent of reassembly.

It took me the entire day to take each rod apart and measure and inspect every single rod bearing pair as well as the bottom bearings on the two main center caps. I took pictures of every bearing shell and found that all of them appeared to be in like new condition and within measured specification for thickness to 4 decimal places. None of the mating crank journals showed any signs of damage and measured within new specification. It was clear that this engine did not have a rod knock. I took time to take pictures of each of the rod bearing pairs (12 rod bearings and the 2 lower center main bearings) so I could show them to Ron. I gave Ron color pictures of all 14 bearings. (We will post these pictures at some point tomorrow.) At this point I wondered if there might be something else wrong with the engine that could cause a noise similar to a rod knock. Since we did not do final assembly of the engine I also checked a couple other possible items. I was thinking perhaps while Ron's mechanic was installing the intake manifold he might have dropped a bolt or nut into one of the intake runners or into the lifter galley. I used a miniature camera for a more in depth check. I probed through the throttle body/plenum to inspect the intake runners finding nothing. I also probed the PCV grommet into the lifter galley. I looked through the fuel pump block off plate into the timing chain area. At this point I removed the spark plug from each cylinder and probed them with the miniature camera finding nothing.

At this point I could not imagine that there was anything else internal to the engine that could make a knocking sound so I decided to put the engine back together and put it on the run-in test stand and give it a listen. Normally on our test stand we use a relatively small muffler for convenience but for this test we decided to keep the turbo on the engine since it was attached when it was returned. This made it easy for us to use a large 3 inch down pipe that could be attached to a much larger and than normal muffler. For extra measure we added an additional muffler in series with the first muffler for even less noise.

When we started the engine it exhibited no knocking noise at all. Certainly it made me feel like I wished I had done this before I took the time to take the bottom end of the engine apart and do all the camera probing. At some point in all this effort we noticed that there was a large gap in the rear "china wall" of the motor. China wall is the nickname given to the main rear wall of the block at the rear of the lifter galley. On this type of engine the china wall is sealed with a piece of rubber about 1/4 inch thick that runs the width of the lifter galley. In this case the seal was attached at both ends and was drooping down inside the lifter galley. Since Ron had returned the engine with the manifold attached this error was a mistake of someone involved in final fitment and installation of the engine in the car. Most experienced mechanics would consider this a "rookie" mistake. One thing is certain. If this engine had been left in the car with this seal missing it would have been a major oil leak.

Since we were unable to find anything wrong with the engine we called Ron and told him that his engine was ready to be picked up. He asked what we found wrong with it. I told him that we would discuss it when he came to pick up the motor and that we had left it on the run stand for him to approve before we prep it for shipment. When Ron came to the shop we first showed him the gap in the china wall and he told us to fix it correctly. Then I showed him the pictures of the bearings and told him that I could find no reason the engine was making a knocking noise and that it must be something related to the car such as the accessories or something that was not internal to the engine.

Then we started the engine and let him listen to it running. After a little warm-up I ran it at different speeds all the way from fast idle to about 5k RPM. Lots of rattle that is normal from the injectors and valve train but no knock at all. Since I wanted him to be sure, I actually ran the engine nearly an hour during which time he even recorded the running with his phone. I asked him if he was ok with the way it sounded. He said that he was ok with it. After allowing a little time for the engine to cool down we started removing all the wires, hoses, and fuel lines necessary to run the engine out of the car and helped him load the engine on his car trailer.

While my guys were breaking down the support equipment, I got Ron to the side and reminded him that we had found nothing wrong with the motor and there was no fault on our part. While we had put nearly 2 days work into the motor I would only charge him for one day plus 300 dollars for setting up the run-in stand which takes several hours. He said that was ok but that he did not have the money with him. He said that he would have to go by the bank and get the money. I told him that we were leaving to go to lunch and that he could stop by the diner and pay us and he agreed that would be ok. We left at the same time and near the end of lunch he had still not shown up. I called him on the phone and he said that all he could get from the ATM was 500 dollars and that he would mail us a check when he got home. Having no reason to doubt him I said that would be ok.

After several days and not hearing from him I tried to call him and his phone went immediately to voice mail. Finally I sent him a text message and asked him for the number of his friend that was going to install the engine. He texted me back with the number and I gave the guy a call. I told him that I would like to be present when he did the startup on the motor and if he would give me a call a day in advance I would be there the next day. He seemed somewhat bothered by my call and said the car had been a real headache and that he ran a very successful towing business and maybe he would call. He never called and the next time we have any contact with Ron Mooney he tells us the engine still has a knock.

I told Ron that if he would bring the car to my shop that I would fix whatever was wrong with it. I told him that I was 99% sure that the problem was not internal to the engine but if it was I would fix it no charge. I also told him that if it was not internal to the engine that I would charge him our regular rate. I told him that I was 100%+ certain that I could fix the problem since I am a world class expert on this type of car.

With a few hours phone calls and emails I can get hundreds of support letters from customers that have had positive experiences with my shop. I go out of my way to make sure that my customers are happy with their Grand Nationals. I share the same passion for these cars as my customers and I want all of them to have positive experiences as Grand National owners.

What else can I say? If Ron wants his car fixed all he has to do is bring it to my shop and I will fix it. For some reason he has been adverse to bringing his car to the shop for work. I am willing to go so far as to say that if there is some mystical reason that I cannot make it right I will give him a brand new ---Buick factory fresh ----never installed in a car---1987---vin7 engine---------I have quite a few of them that I have had for 30 years and he can come to the shop and pick which one he wants.



Starting after tomorrow I will post a few positive reviews from happy RCG Customers and will do this for some time. The happy customers outweigh the unhappy ones 100 to 1.

Mr. Clark,

My hats off to you sir! As that was the most thoughtful, carefully worded response that I have ever seen! And I must say that you’ve laid out your case in such a professional way that I’m sure some of the finest litigators in the country would be proud to take credit for. Please know that you have my respect and admiration as that response is far bigger (and better) than I could have mustered.

It’s hard to argue a point when you sign off on a motor (that you hear run on a stand). That is, unless you are a reporter for CNN or the like? As Jerryl said internet suicide? But, its more like Death by Post Ingestion aka Eating Your Own Words!!

Wow!!! Just wow!!

 

[TurboTGuy]

I'm not posting this to get into a pissing match or have it deleted because the board doesn't like my post.

I am only posting this to air my legitimate gripe with a well known shop who shall remain anonymous at this point. (links to claims will be made public if this is not resolved to my satisfaction at a later date). I am posting this so board members are aware of what I've been through and I'd value their opinion on this matter.

8 months ago I dropped my motor off at a premier shop to have my Grand National motor short block rebuilt.
They looked at it and determined it needed a cam, a crank, honed, re ringed, all new bearings. Simple re build, no rocket science here.
Time frame I was promised came and went. Called to inquire and owner couldn't even remember who I was or what my engine was there for.
He was very annoyed with me for even asking about the progress and said he'd look into it. I treated him with respect and didn't complain.

About a week later I get a call to come and pick up my motor. I was told I could run in the cam. No, that is part of the rebuild price. Motor had my Gessler heads on it (installed by them) so they threw on an intake and exhaust manifolds on and broke it in. A couple of days later I pick up a totally brand new motor and pay the man $4,100 CASH for his work. I take it back to my mechanic who maintains this GN and he installs primes and fires up this new motor. (he has taken this car apart many times and knows what he's doing). GUESS WHAT...................instantly upon start up we now have a lower engine knock. 15 seconds engine is shut off. We send a video to the shop owner and he says, "sounds real bad bring it back". Motor comes back out and now I haul it back to the shop.

When I arrive immediately the shop owner starts insinuating that we must have done something to this brand new motor to cause this knock. All we did was install his new rebuild and fire up what he made NEW. Trans and Torque converter installed correctly, motor re primed, all sensors, oil lines, vacuum lines and electrical connections were installed correctly. Now I'm promised they will fix whatever is wrong with this rebuild on them.

A month goes by and I inquire about my motor and they haven't looked at it yet. (very annoyed I even called) I still haven't complained as they promised to fix this knock and I trusted them at their word. This was starting to stink, just the way I was now being talked to. A few days later a text, "engine done, pick up ASAP".

Haul myself all the way back to shop (5 1/2 hrs.) to pick up motor and ask what was wrong with motor, NOTHING was his reply. Am I stupid, am I and 4 other mechanics that heard this knock deaf and dumb, does my video lie. Now he wants $1,200 for inspecting the 2 center rod bearings and gave up there. He should have continued inspecting complete engine until he found what was wrong. (he built the damn thing). He is still trying to blame my mechanic for doing something to cause the internal KNOCK. I refuse to pay his last charges as he has told me nothing is wrong and engine is fine. I had a funny feeling he was trying to scam me for more money on his BRAND NEW rebuild.

I haul this motor back to my mechanic, he re installs the motor videoing every aspect of the installation and guess what ? ? ?
SAME KNOCK, SAME SPOT, absolutely nothing was done to find and fix this KNOCK. When I call the shop owner he screamed at me and told me this was impossible as he found NOTHING wrong with the motor. All he kept yelling about was his $1,200 that he didn't get for doing nothing.

Now he wants me to bring my whole car back to him and his ultimatum is, "if I find something we did wrong I'll fix it, if I find something you guys did you will pay me to fix it".
After all the mystery, lies, rude attitude, screaming at me, no straight answers, scams being pulled and 2 attempts to make this motor 100% there is no way that ME, MY MOTOR or MY CAR will ever set foot on his property again. I demand a full refund as he has ruined my motor and has devalued my one owner pride and joy by about 50%. I have had 5 motors, 3 trannys and 2 rears done for this car over the years when I raced it. I've been to this rodeo before. Duttweiller, Art Carr and Strange have made errors on things they've built for me and always made them right and always treated the customer with due respect. I am appalled at the absolute horrible treatment I've gotten from this shop owner, there was no respect or customer service, only finger pointing.

I would like to give anyone who has an opinion on this matter to post it here. Like I said to the owner, "REFUND MY MONEY and I'll have someone else fix this motor" and all my posts here and elsewhere about this will be removed. Like I said, I will not divulge the name of the owner or the shop hoping they will do the right thing. If he chooses to ignore me I will link all the complaints I've made on all the Buick sites so no one else gets burned like I have.

Any thoughts ! Lets see if the shop owner responds, but I doubt that he is man enough !

P.S., please don't post who you think it is, I'd like to give the shop an opportunity to expose themselves at this point and discuss this matter.

WOW!

I am trying to respect Shane's request to stay out, but someone with an axe to grind has a VERY tough road to hoe.

tufbuick, RJC may have just shown your whole hand of cards, it seems to be weak, at best.

I'm jus' sayin.

You trusted RJC to build you an engine, but chose to use an inexperienced TURBO BUICK mechanic to install.

Results may vary.

 

[m3x1c0]

First of all I want to say I’m very sorry about your frustration with the motor. I’ve been through it. Several times. In fact after dumping about 20,000 into my car it was wrecked by a dumbass less than 2 months after getting it back on the road. I was gutted. But we move on and do the best we can. Just know that my goal from the start has never been to blame or point fingers, but to ensure you are happy with the product.

In addition to Richards response I wanted to chime in with some details I was around for. Ron contacted me when his motor was in our shop the second time. I listened to his situation and assured him that if we found anything wrong with the engine we would fix it free of charge. Since this would be the first time since I’ve worked for Richard that a motor was DOA I told Mr. Mooney that it was extremely important that I be there for the startup the second time in his car. As Richard mentions, a lot can go wrong without proper experience and training with these cars. Personally, if someone brings me a car that has had an engine failure; I clean or replace everything related to the oiling system. Including oil coolers, filters, lines etc. I prime the motor before starting it even if it had just run on the engine stand. I prime the fuel system. I check the coil pack and module. I make damn sure that every sensor, wire etc is perfect so that I know when that key is turned the motor will fire up and doesn’t spend its first few minutes of life being cranked. All this I mentioned to Ron and more crucially I made it clear: I do not care who’s fault it is that the engine is making noise, my goal is to make sure the problem is fixed and that the customer is happy with the result. To that end I offered to install the motor or at least help with the install at his preferred shop since at this point Ron was upset and did not want to bring his car to us. Ron stated that it would be a waste of my time and that his guy was a premier Mustang builder. I stated that while that is probably the case, for my peace of mind and Richards I insisted that I be there for when it was started in the car for the first time. I told Ron that no matter when it was, no matter what time of day, when he was ready to fire up the engine I would hop in my car and drive straight down there no matter what I was doing.

Fast forward to a week or so later. We had found nothing wrong with the engine. All the tolerances were exactly as they had been when the engine had left the first time. No damage was found. The only issue was that Ron’s engine installer had left the rear of the intake manifold unsealed. We had wasted a day and would waste one more setting the engine up on a runstand to ensure it made no aberrant noises. I then left for a rare 3 day break to spend time with my family. It was during this time that Ron had picked up his motor. I was upset upon my return to learn that Ron had ducked out of paying for the wasted effort. However, I wanted to understand his reason for doing so. I made several attempts to call Mr. Mooney for the next few days but was greeted by his voicemail only. I learned that this was the same result that Richard and one other employee would get when attempting to reach his cell phone. This is a classic sign that your number has been blocked so I made an attempt to call him from my wifes phone. The phone rang 5 times before forwarding to his voicemail. It was at this point that I texted him telling him that I was dissapointed with this behavior. I figured that was that. We had wasted our time and more importantly I would not get the chance to ensure that Mr. Mooney ended up with a satisfactory result from our business together.

Now here we are. I am writing this instead of spending valuable time with my family. I am writing this instead of doing what I love. In the interest of transparency I believe Mr. Mooney should know that neither I nor Richard collect a paycheck from our work at the garage. Though you accuse Richard of being greedy he and I invest every cent we make back into the company in hopes of making it into a hub and a community for those who share our interest in these cars. I say this because Mr. Mooney has taken it upon himself to harass us with multiple online complaints, threats, late night texts punctuated with “sleep well” after a menacing threat. We made our offer: we will fix whatever is wrong. If it is our fault we will do so at our own cost. This is much much more than any other engine builder has ever offered me or anyone that I know. There is nothing more that we can offer. What else can we do? You ignored my offer to install the motor the second time. You ignored my request to be there at startup. How can I warranty an engine if I’m not allowed to see it in person to know that it is actually faulty? Am I to trust your word after all of your harassment?

This job has not been easy. After the fire that destroyed much of the shop several years ago we have been doing our very best to get the shop back to shape while still completing customer cars in a reasonable time frame. I have made mistakes along the way for sure. But I will always do my very best to correct those mistakes. Dealing with Mr. Mooneys constant harassment has very nearly drained me of what energy I have at the end of every day. Yet he does not allow me the ability to solve this problem. I work an average of 15 hours a day on weekdays and all of my saturdays too. In the very few moments I have to spend with my family I get to deal with this nonsense instead. To that end, This will be only reply to you. The offer still stands, but your threats and insults will continue to be ignored. For the sake of my family and my sanity.

To conclude this nightmare I would like to say that despite all of what has transpired, my personal offer to come to you and diagnose your issue as well repair and warranty anything that may be our doing still stands. In addition, if you can prove to me via an independent, well respected and mutually agreed upon party that the engine noise is our fault; I will personally repay you every cent you have spent at our shop and will cover the outstanding tear down bill that you chose to duck out on. This is not something that Richard wants me to do but it is my feeling that it is the right thing.

Finally, for everyone watching, you should all know that I have known Richard for almost 3 years now. In that time I’ve met hundreds of his friends, colleagues and customers. Not a one does not have a story of Richard going the extra mile for them. There’s not a single one of them that Richard would not give the shirt off his back to. He has told me time and time again that the way he has succeeded in life is to share in everything he learns. He is gracious, compassionate, and generous to a fault. I am grateful to call him my friend and my mentor. Do not be too quick to judge him on the rantings of an angry person. He would never do the same to you.

 

[TurboTGuy]

"To conclude this nightmare I would like to say that despite all of what has transpired, my personal offer to come to you and diagnose your issue as well repair and warranty anything that may be our doing still stands. In addition, if you can prove to me via an independent, well respected and mutually agreed upon party that the engine noise is our fault; I will personally repay you every cent you have spent at our shop and will cover the outstanding tear down bill that you chose to duck out on. This is not something that Richard wants me to do but it is my feeling that it is the right thing."

Beat that offer.

 

[psycho6cyl]

One thing you cant say about richard is that he is greedy. In fact its quite opposite. Theres probaly been more ppl taking advantage of his generosity than anything else.

 

[Pronto]

tufbuick failed to mention a lot! I think he put too much faith in his "mechanic" and should have left the install to the experts. Engine was run on a stand, videos of it, etc and he sees it run with no problems. RCG went above and beyond for tufbuick.

 

[tufbuick]

Yes there are two sides to every story. I've gotten three stories from each one of the the people who work at Richards.
His past reputation I am not interested in at this point, I originally went to him because of his reputation. He Failed ME.
I was as nice as I could be along the way and couldn't get a straight answer form anyone at that shop as far as timing, condition of engine, a each person either didn't know what was going on or was afraid to say.

I knew there was a lot of RCG supporters that will come on here and flame me, but how would you feel if you got screwed out of a lot of money and then you get yelled at like you've got some nerve questioning anything about your engine build. Now after two tries to get this engine right he wants me to bring my car up to him so he can fix it. My car is mint and I will not take it to RCG and let it sit outside and rot while I wait for him to get around to it. A third try to fix my motor Isn't going to happen.

I only want the lies and deception to be exposed here and be compensated for my losses, so this is where this has wound up:

http://www.peopleclaim.com/complaint-details/richard-clarks-garage-burlington-nc-6630489

 

[Pronto]

^Confirmed.

 

[seedling]

Yes there are two sides to every story.

His past reputation I am not interested in at this point, I originally went to him because of his reputation.

I knew there was a lot of RCG supporters that will come on here and flame me, but how would you feel if you got screwed out of a lot of money

A third try to fix my motor Isn't going to happen.

I only want the lies and deception to be exposed here and be compensated for my losses, so this is where this has wound up:

WOW!!

You come on here and bash one of the finest most upstanding establishments that our passion has to offer? And you lie, mislead, leave out “KEY DETAILS SUCH AS YOU SAW HEARD MOTOR RUN ON A STAND” and yet, you expect someone to believe you and / or feel sorry for you? Well, I’m sorry dude but you must be smoking something cause that’s just nuts!

Furthermore, the man has offered to fix your car, period! So, you’ve got no beef! I’m sorry but you look like what Pronto posted, a total Asshat!!

Moreover, the only lies and deception here have been coming from you! RCG owes you nothing and yet they are gracious enough to offer to help. But, the problem is that you can’t follow instruction and you let the wrong guy install your motor! All of which is on you! So, sorry but take your pity party elsewhere as nobody here has time for this nonsense!






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