my 80 regal limited

[futten]

ooh ill never leave buick land me and charlie has also talked about series 2 engine but that also is one id need to get from over seas also how is it to convert series 2 fwd into rwd and i probably also need to get a custom sheet metal carb intake made up

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I dunno, from here your quickly departing the land of normal.... ending up in same situation me and charlie are in... everything becomes custom or unique. this kind of build quickly measures the size of your wallet.

 

[charlief1]

I dunno, from here your quickly departing the land of normal.... ending up in same situation me and charlie are in... everything becomes custom or unique. this kind of build quickly measures the size of your wallet.

Not to mention fabrication skills. The 1 thing I do know is the TTA heads will bolt on directly and even the intake can be used, but you have to make your own headers. Combustion chamber is smaller and you get rid of the shaft mounted rockers for stud mounted ones. If I remember right they even have a "D" shaped exhaust port so the flow should be better.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

but that cast iron wont support the needed compression for the octane available.......... damned if he does- damned if he doesnt...

I say a clapped out stocker and 500 in nitrous should do the ticket cheaply a few times.

 

[futten]

well with a flat top pistons with valve reliefs should help right?

 

[futten]

i miiight have a lead on some series 1 FWD heads a guy in norway is selling a 88 le sabre and a parts car im hoping he will lett me pull the heads off it

 

[fuzzyGN]

Couple of things. I think aluminum heads on a N/A 231 is a total waste of money. You need the larger bore of a 4.1 to unshroud the valaves so it can breathe. In a car the has anything over 3000 pounds the 3.8L is also a waste of time and money. Need more inches to get the torque to get that pig rolling. Finally, in an N/A application the compression needs to be just over what you think the max should be or else it isn't enough. Don't even consider anything less than 11 to 1 with the gas you have available. The bigger the cam, the more compression you can get away with and the more compression you will need. What cam are you thinking of using? I would think a 224 ish would be a decent starting point but it all has to match.

AJ, what did Erik ever do with his Regal? I never saw it complete.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Couple of things. I think aluminum heads on a N/A 231 is a total waste of money. You need the larger bore of a 4.1 to unshroud the valaves so it can breathe. In a car the has anything over 3000 pounds the 3.8L is also a waste of time and money. Need more inches to get the torque to get that pig rolling. Finally, in an N/A application the compression needs to be just over what you think the max should be or else it isn't enough. Don't even consider anything less than 11 to 1 with the gas you have available. The bigger the cam, the more compression you can get away with and the more compression you will need. What cam are you thinking of using? I would think a 224 ish would be a decent starting point but it all has to match.

AJ, what did Erik ever do with his Regal? I never saw it complete.

I agree 100% the NA build is just a hard one to go about on these engines.... its a long expensive road to follow. we have both Been There Done That.

my cuz? lmao....... it sits at my house looking as sad as the skyhawk. he hates that car, hates the fact he poured almost 5 grand into just the motor and its a complete dog... it cant get out of its own way!
So as of right now, were going blow thru turbo and E85.... That is if I dont end up with the car. But this is a classic example of what happens when you dont listin to the people on the forum. he was warned the dangers of an NA build, time and time again... but insisted it would respond like a small block chevy. it didnt. so this is one case i can confirm 100% that he will never build another buick.

 

[futten]

for fuzzy. the car i assure you will not weight 3400 pounds when finished it will be closer to 2400 if not less so alot of weight reductions will be done about the cam charlie and frankestein has adviced me to go for a 210/215 cam with increase compression and that cam im not expecting a monster as ive say earlier just something as close to 300 as possible

and to the good doctor just an idea with the stock heads ported with a flat top piston and the 210/215 cam edelbrock intake holley 600 long tube headers 2-1 exhaust 1.77 and 1.55 valves how do you think it will behave?

 

[dr_frankenstein]

for fuzzy. the car i assure you will not weight 3400 pounds when finished it will be closer to 2400 if not less so alot of weight reductions will be done about the cam charlie and frankestein has adviced me to go for a 210/215 cam with increase compression and that cam im not expecting a monster as ive say earlier just something as close to 300 as possible

and to the good doctor just an idea with the stock heads ported with a flat top piston and the 210/215 cam edelbrock intake holley 600 long tube headers 2-1 exhaust 1.77 and 1.55 valves how do you think it will behave?

I dont see you gutting that car down to 2400............ there would be nuthing for comfort left.... seriously.

A flat top piston with 2 eybrow reliefs with an .018 steel shim gasket should net right around 11.1-1 compression. since your gonna need all the torque you can get down low, that cam sounds Okay... but will dog at the top. it wont rap very high and power will fall quickly if spun to hard.

I think that combo should get you to 250-275 hp

should be okay on the street, timing is really going to have to be watched with your octane. timing is where the power is going to be as well, the more you can push the more the motor will wake up. but it might be detonation prone.

 

[futten]

well this engine probably wont spin more the 6 grand when being hammered on

 

[futten]

ive started ti unshroud the intake valves that adds some cc to the chamber

 

[futten]

only flat top pistons i can find for the buick 3 liter are cast i assume i should get Hypereutectic once

 

[ek02]

Attached are 2 PDF files of dyno and dragstrip tests done by Kenne Bell back in the early 80's on a N/A Skyhawk. Keep in mind that Jim Bell was selling these parts, so the comparisons on manifolds, headers, and carburetors may be biased. I have used full length and 3 in 1 headers and I really could not see a difference on the street. I really believe the manifold test because I believe the KB manifold will give more wide open power than a dual plane Edelbrock, especially with Nitrous. The Mark II cam is a good choice for street. I have a Mark 2R in my 3.8 and it idles pretty rough. You need a loose converter with a 108 LSA. The same grind in a roller idles OK in my 274" 4.1. Of course, these cams are no longer made. Comp can grind one from an old cam card. I have the cards for the Mark I, Mark II, and Mark 2R if anyone needs the specs. Poston also sold the same cams from the same grinder after KB stopped selling Buick parts. The StageII 276" engine made some great power. I hope the files are readable.

 

[futten]

you keep bringing up converters but im usin a speed manual

 

[ek02]

Did not know you had a standard trans. You can use a pretty radical cam in that case, as long as you have a low enough rear end gear and the compression to go with the cam.

 

[futten]

compression goal is 10.5-11:1 and rearend gearing im thinkin will be a 3.42

 

[ek02]

Sounds like a good plan. 3.42 is good if you drive on the highway. I run 3.80 gears, but I have a Gear Vendors overdrive on a Turbo 350 for the highway. I saw your head porting job. You are on the right track. I ported 2 sets of iron heads and put 1.77 intake valves in. I put the heads manifold side down on a piece of 1/4" steel plate and heated aluminum in a lead pot with a rosebud torch tip, and then poured it into the opening in the exhaust valve pocket through a funnel I made. It left a lot of aluminum to be ground out of the valve pocket, but it worked. I had the intake port side surfaced. Here are some photos.

 

[fuzzyGN]

Um, no you will not get a Regal down to 2400 pounds. My Vega which has had a HUGE amount of weight reduction performed on it scaled at 2450 pounds. That car is only 14 feet long and less than 6 feet wide. Single sheet metal (and crappy thin at that) and no back seat. The only way to get a Regal down to anywhere near that will be a carbon fiber body on a full tube frame. Maybe slighlty more realistic goal would be under 3000 pounds but even that won't be easy.

I am more out of the norm and go with bigger cams than most. The 210/215 is great for a turbo car but I would go higher myself for an NA build. My current cam is 260 range and may be a tad small. Of course it isn't a fair comparision to your build but for conversation purposes. I think doc is about right with a guess of about 250. To give an idea, my current bomb (all used parts) was dynoed at 175hp and was a 4.1 with 8.5:1 compression, Kenne Bell cam (big one), ported 8445 heads, headers, and a Kenne Bell single plane intake. If the compression were higher it would have been about 220 or slightly more. This was at 4000 feet so about a 15% reduction from what it would be at sea level. So, even with the bigger cubes and better breathing that comes out to about 250. It is so hard to make big numbers with little cubes.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

none are really any lesser of two evils, all options to make NA power suck when it comes to the buick v6.

its either big complicated money to squeeze the power from the stocker, or save the big money for an assembled stage 2

I say for what you really want to do.......... stage 2..... or at the very very very least, a Stage 2 top end on your factory block.

what more to say, the block needs heads that can breathe for that kind of power in NA form, and stage 2 is the only way ive ever seen it done..... reliably.