My Experience with Motor & Trans Build by Nick Micale

[Terbro]

never knew you could build one for 1500 period....

Just telling you what he told me. Everything I've written in the story is 100% accurate to my most honest capacity as a human being.

That said, I just did a quick Googling of "buick V6 crate motor" and this one came up: http://www.powertrainproducts.net/B...NE-p/675.htm?gclid=CLb7p4X6jswCFQyEaQodwpgEdw Nixing the core factor, (they're able to offer it for $1,700). So...looks like it can surely be done, parts *and* labor for close to $1,500.

 

[~JM~]

I have no dog in this fight & hope that all involved can work out a reasonable resolution.

On the invoice it states New Valves & Port Work for $325. That is not very much money for valves & port work. I would think that the work would only consist of the valves, seats & no more than a gasket match at the head & intake manifold interface. Port work is a very time consuming & expensive process. Profiling valve guides & cleaning up the bowls would be more expensive.

 

[robzombie]

I have no dog in this fight & hope that all involved can work out a reasonable resolution.

On the invoice it states New Valves & Port Work for $325. That is not very much money for valves & port work. I would think that the work would only consist of the valves, seats & no more than a gasket match at the head & intake manifold interface. Port work is a very time consuming & expensive process.

Exactly, and why you and the builder need to be on the same page before and during any work is done.

Port work in your mind may mean a max port job and his may mean a bowl blend or gasket match.

 

[Terbro]

First, have you verified every issue that you speak of in this thread and not just the word of others on some pics you posted??

Second, have you brought this to Nicks attention before posting in this thread to see if you could come to an agreement on your concerns and give him a chance to explain himself??

If the answer is yes to both of those then have at it and post away.

With all due respect, I'm not required to seek your approval before posting feedback, or prerequisites.

I dealt with Nick for *many months* after I received my car back (I got it back last May). I'm done with him...he's full of lies, and while I was actually tempted to contact him as you are saying, I made the decision that I don't want to have any further interaction with him. I have lost ALL faith in him. The facts are all too plain. I waited months to post this until I was absolutely certain about this stuff. Why would I want to give a scammer a chance to explain himself? This is cut-and-dry. I gave him the benefit of the doubt at first about the transmission, until I heard James (the trans builder) tell me what really happened. A perfect contraction to what Nick told me, and it made much better sense. And when there gets to be the number of issues that I've had...it gets to the point when it's just all to clear.

Nope...don't communicate with known scammers. I'm treating Nick just like I do all the scammers that try calling or emailing. They're ignored. However, if he wants to chime in here, send me a new motor with ALL the internals I requested, pay to have it R&R'ed here, then it will be duly noted that he made it right. And he can pay to have the motor that's in my car now shipped back to him. I'll take off $1K for the uncountable hours I've already spent troubleshooting my car, and send him $1,062.

Of course there's no chance in hell he's going to do that. I've already wasted my time writing all this.

Know that I may not respond to all posts. With all due respect...I can see there will be a broad variety of opinions. You're welcome to them, but I'm not here to respond to each and every person's thoughts on this. I wrote a very detail account of my experience with Nick. Have your opinion...if you can gain something from the feedback, very good. If not...very good as well.

 

[robzombie]

I don't have a dog in this fight.

I do however give the other party a chance to make things right before I bash them into the ground.

Ask anyone here that knows me. I gave Gbody every chance to make things right before I posted what a jerk he is.

I'm all for getting the truth out trust me. I probably piss off more people on this board than anyone, but I only call BS when I see it and will also apologize if I'm wrong or make a mistake.

If you went that route first and got nowhere it would be noted that you made the effort and therefore would be more believable instead of posting problems and not giving him a chance to rectify before this all became public.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I've had great dealings with Nick and I bought my TA Heads from him with the $300 porting. That was just to clean up the bowls etc on the new heads so maybe there was a miscommunication there on your deal? Not saying either way but porting is very expensive.

The only other thing I'd add to this is I'd expect some oil leaks on a fresh motor after driving it as far as you did on a fresh build. After a few heat cycles gaskets settle and stuff needs checked and retightened. I believe that's fairly normal.

I hope the best for both of you on this deal. Hopefully you two find a way to get back together, 15 years is a long time to throw away.

 

[Terbro]

I have no dog in this fight & hope that all involved can work out a reasonable resolution.

On the invoice it states New Valves & Port Work for $325. That is not very much money for valves & port work. I would think that the work would only consist of the valves, seats & no more than a gasket match at the head & intake manifold interface. Port work is a very time consuming & expensive process. Profiling valve guides & cleaning up the bowls would be more expensive.

Of course I thought it was exceedingly cheap...especially when in our conversations on the phone, I made it perfectly clear that I wanted my heads ported. There was never a single word mentioned or port-matching or gasket matching. Let me assure you, Nick knew exactly what I was talking about...I wanted the heads ported! I started the conversation off with "I've been thinking of getting Champion Irons, but can your machine shop guys port heads?"

What was happening, was Nick was just saying "yes" to anything. Again, I'm convinced he was thinking I would sell the car shortly after I got it back. Saying yes was just much easier for him than saying no. He knew I didn't really have the money for Champion Irons, wanted to get me off the phone (anyone that knows me, knows I talk a fair amount, and write too).

And...I think the reason it was so cheap...is knowing he wasn't going to actually do it, his conscience probably didn't allow him to actually charge me for it. It was basically free port work...that never happened.

For that reason, though it's been verified that I never got the DW300 pump, which was on the invoice, and the forged pistons, which are all but 100% verified...I wouldn't be surprised if I actually do have the forged crank. I wouldn't want to call this one. That's a $700 line item, right there. Nick did go into relatively more detail on that one, telling me it required a steel balancer, which I had to pay $290 for, (which is on the car), he later told me the cranks are Chinese, and weigh about 15 lbs more than stock. So his detail was good on that one. Of course he spoke extensively about the DW pump he put in too...which never was. So again - can't call that one.

I *still* have a significant oil leak since day one getting the car back. So at some point, I'll need to drop the pan and replace the gasket in hopes that's the issue. I'll be able to get a good look at the crank then. My $10 endoscope might not make it conclusive if I just run it up the oil drain.

 

[TurboTGuy]

Just telling you what he told me. Everything I've written in the story is 100% accurate to my most honest capacity as a human being.

That said, I just did a quick Googling of "buick V6 crate motor" and this one came up: http://www.powertrainproducts.net/B...NE-p/675.htm?gclid=CLb7p4X6jswCFQyEaQodwpgEdw Nixing the core factor, (they're able to offer it for $1,700). So...looks like it can surely be done, parts *and* labor for close to $1,500.

I have no dog in this hunt either, but that link is for a '77-'78 engine, not an 86-87 turbo engine. Altogether different engines and builds. Jus' sayin'.

 

[Terbro]

I don't have a dog in this fight.

I do however give the other party a chance to make things right before I bash them into the ground.

Ask anyone here that knows me. I gave Gbody every chance to make things right before I posted what a jerk he is.

I'm all for getting the truth out trust me. I probably piss off more people on this board than anyone, but I only call BS when I see it and will also apologize if I'm wrong or make a mistake.

If you went that route first and got nowhere it would be noted that you made the effort and therefore would be more believable instead of posting problems and not giving him a chance to rectify before this all became public.

I'll surely give a person a chance to make things right if they've made an honest mistake(s). But flat-out scamming is another thing. Look at the top of this forum category. It doesn't say "Bashing". It's "Feedback". That's what I'm giving. If you perceive it as bashing, then you're mistaken. There's great value in this section to the TR Community. I've already received several "informative" tags to my post. And that's exactly why I posted it. Personally, after months of learning about Nick's character, or lack thereof, if I was bashing, it would've been impulsive and straight from my ego. I waited until I was calm and non-insulting to write my story. If you need to, re-read it. It's a detailed, honest account of my experience with him. Notice how there's not one degrading, crude insult to Nick's character, like "Nick's a m-f'in' a******". Nothing of the sort.

Anyone is welcome to give Nick a head's up, if he's not aware already, and inform him of my post. He's beyond welcome to defend himself. He's lied enough. If he lies again, I will correct him. He already chimed in to my other post and said something to the effect of "things would be different if I had paid him the $2K". What? I stopped paying him only after I discovered the myriad of issues. And I don't know how the forged pistons, transmission, oil leaks, DW pump, non-ported heads would've magically materialized in the car if I had paid him.

My point is - Nick has no defense. Why give him a chance to try and recover from something he's just guilty of? And would I be doing the TR Community a favor if I kept my mouth shut? This is the sole purpose of my post - to inform. I've had several others PM me, one who had more issues than me, who's furious, but too afraid to speak up publically.

But most importantly, I've been fully aware that Nick will undoubtedly see this sooner or later. He's got every opportunity to make it right, and it will absolutely be made known by me. If it's not obvious, I have no intent in just finding the fault in Nick. If he makes it right, then that will be awesome. If he sends me the motor I requested, pays for the R&R, compensates me for all the trouble I've been through, then I'll broadcast it exactly like have with all this.

But it's too late. One shouldn't wait until their story of misconduct is broadcast to try and make things right. He'd only be doing it because of my story. He's still guilty. The right thing to do, would've been to build the motor and trans and set up the car and worthy of the $10,375 of work and parts that's on the invoice. What I got was worth about $5K-6K (though I paid him over $8K).

Again, this is for the TR Community. Notice the "beware" in the title.

I don't doubt that others have had positive experiences with Nick. One doesn't get a good reputation if they've been ripping people off since day one of their career. And no one is purely evil or purely Stainly.

 

[Terbro]

I have no dog in this hunt either, but that link is for a '77-'78 engine, not an 86-87 turbo engine. Altogether different engines and builds. Jus' sayin'.

You're good. I figured I'd get one of those. I'm sure rings, and bearings for the turbo motor are many hundreds more for a basic turbo motor rebuild. Some light sarcasm.

Come on...you get the point. We're talking about a basic rebuild of a 231 V6. You seriously don't get that a basic rebuild will only be...what - rings, gaskets and bearings, and maybe a honing of the block? Tell me how that'll be different between a 109 block and another block. Maybe the rings (because they're "turbo" rings?) are a few bucks more. We're talking the basic rebuild parts here. Sigh. Some people are just itchin' to play devil's advocate.

 

[Terbro]

I've had great dealings with Nick and I bought my TA Heads from him with the $300 porting. That was just to clean up the bowls etc on the new heads so maybe there was a miscommunication there on your deal? Not saying either way but porting is very expensive.

The only other thing I'd add to this is I'd expect some oil leaks on a fresh motor after driving it as far as you did on a fresh build. After a few heat cycles gaskets settle and stuff needs checked and retightened. I believe that's fairly normal.

I hope the best for both of you on this deal. Hopefully you two find a way to get back together, 15 years is a long time to throw away.

Didn't drive it, trailered it the 800 miles. And you don't understand...there were leaks everywhere! And I'm serious about the looseness of the bolts. I could tighten quite a few with my fingers, oil pan, valve cover, and even a header bolt! Whoever put the motor together not only didn't tighten all the bolts, but did *zero* post start-up inspection of leaks. They put oil in it, drove it for 5 minutes like I did, never looked under the car, and called it done.

I was just reviewing some of the pics from back then. Attached is one I took of one of the bigger oil leaks, after driving it maybe 3-5 miles after trailering it home. And I just spotted another pic, that reminded of another problem I discovered early on. The turbo oil return line was fully kinked...scary (see pic), considering I had Nick install $1,200 dual BB turbo. As I said...shoddy workmanship. That was one of my first fixes, besides all the leaks.

 

[L8TRH8R]

1500.00 for a REBUILD using all the parts that came with the engine is doable but with any goodies IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Terbro]

I've had great dealings with Nick and I bought my TA Heads from him with the $300 porting. That was just to clean up the bowls etc on the new heads so maybe there was a miscommunication there on your deal? Not saying either way but porting is very expensive.

The only other thing I'd add to this is I'd expect some oil leaks on a fresh motor after driving it as far as you did on a fresh build. After a few heat cycles gaskets settle and stuff needs checked and retightened. I believe that's fairly normal.

I hope the best for both of you on this deal. Hopefully you two find a way to get back together, 15 years is a long time to throw away.

I did want to say...that while I posted pics of oil leaks and kinked turbo return lines - those things are relatively minor to what I've discovered. I wouldn't have posted feedback if those were the only problems. Parts and major work not installed/performed is what did it.

That said, and not to go on and on about it, but I surely don't know of anyone who buys a brand new car, that has all kinds of leaks. Heat cycles may shrink gaskets a tiny amount, and I can imagine that if one were to come back and check bolts, they might take another 1/2 turn. But once again - these could be tightened with my fingers. But I don't care too much about the leaks. I'd think one would want to know that they might not get internal engine components and parts put in and port work as requested. As frustrating and disheartening as that was (having to immediately crawl under my car and start working on it for hours, trying to hunt down where all the leaks are coming from)...discovering engine internals aren't what you expected is a much bigger deal.

 

[Terbro]

1500.00 for a REBUILD using all the parts that came with the engine is doable but with any goodies IMPOSSIBLE.

Right...that was his basic, stock rebuild.

 

[BobbyBuick]

1500.00 for a REBUILD using all the parts that came with the engine is doable but with any goodies IMPOSSIBLE.

i jus6t did a little research you can buy the pistons,rings,bearings and gaskets for under 700 so it is do able TRW forged Pistons too

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I did want to say...that while I posted pics of oil leaks and kinked turbo return lines - those things are relatively minor to what I've discovered. I wouldn't have posted feedback if those were the only problems. Parts and major work not installed/performed is what did it.

That said, and not to go on and on about it, but I surely don't know of anyone who buys a brand new car, that has all kinds of leaks. Heat cycles may shrink gaskets a tiny amount, and I can imagine that if one were to come back and check bolts, they might take another 1/2 turn. But once again - these could be tightened with my fingers. But I don't care too much about the leaks. I'd think one would want to know that they might not get internal engine components and parts put in and port work as requested. As frustrating and disheartening as that was (having to immediately crawl under my car and start working on it for hours, trying to hunt down where all the leaks are coming from)...discovering engine internals aren't what you expected is a much bigger deal.

I hear what you're saying, look at some of my posts over the last 3 years. My engines on the stand for the 3rd time in 3 years.

 

[dragrazor]

Man, if this is all true, finding reputable TR mechanics is getting that much more difficult. I hope things work out and/or all parties learn from this and move on.

 

[turboclam]

Look at where the crank bolts to the flywheel. Might be able to tell if the crank is steel or cast.

 

[Terbro]

I also wanted to say this, and keep in mind, this part is just my "opinion". I tried to stick to the facts in my story and actually described what transpired. This is a bit different, in that I'll be telling you how the motor "feels". For that the $3K, Nick alluded to the big difference being in the machine work and balancing, describing how the block would be decked, the cylinders would be aligned during the machining process (blueprinting, right?), and the balancing of the piston rods, etc. So I would expect that to all manifest as an especially smooth running motor, particularly at higher rpms, yes?

This is TR #6. I've owned 5 others before this. My first had 13K original miles. Another had 56K orig. miles. Point being, I know what a TR feels like at high rpms. This one feels pretty much just like all the other healthy running TR's I've owned in the past, but not one bit better. All I can say is, if I had to bet - I'd bet in a second that all that extra machining, blueprinting, and balancing that Nick spoke of, all that doubled the cost of the build (from $1,500 to $3,000)...just didn't happen.

Nick told me that he'd be boring it 0.020 over. In looking at the cylinder walls yesterday with endoscope. They do look fresh. I think that may be the extent of the machine work.

Again I want to emphasize this is just my opinion based on what I feel, that there's nothing that stands out in the motor at all that I notice as it being smoother running than any other TR I've owned. It vibrates a bit at higher rpms just like the other low miles healthy TR's I've owned. The bottom line - I have no idea where that extra $1,500 went vs. the basic rebuild.

 

[Boost231]

Waiting for nick to chime in...

Looks like you need the correct oil drain tube.