The plane will accelerate to 10mph or whatever speed but the treadmill is stationary[not the belt]I still think it would be impossible to keep the plane from moving.Yes it would take off.
Mythbusters tackles the plane/treadmill
- Thread starter Pitbozz
- Start date
The plane will accelerate to 10mph or whatever speed but the treadmill is stationary[not the belt]I still think it would be impossible to keep the plane from moving.Yes it would take off.
Well, yeah. The plane isn't going to take off with a treadmill attached to it.
87we410877
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2005
There is no way the plane is taking off if it remains stationary in relation to the atmosphere. I dont see hoe this can even be debated. its like saying if i hook up a drill motor to an aircraft wheel while its on jacks and fire the engines up, it will take off. If the plane is not moving relevant to the air, or ground (not treadmill) there will be no lift created under the wings. Yes the engines produce thrust to keep it in place but like said above, not over any of the lifting surfaces except maybe the horizontal stabalizer. A prop plane has some thrust over the wings but its negligable compared to whats need for lift.
If it takes off, they have the aircraft moving at take off air speed.
If its stationary its not going anywhere and i'll put all three of my GN's on it. BTW im an aircraft mechanic as well.
If it takes off, they have the aircraft moving at take off air speed.
If its stationary its not going anywhere and i'll put all three of my GN's on it. BTW im an aircraft mechanic as well.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2002
It won't fly
If the plane were moving backwards on the conveyer, that would mean that its wheels were turning slower then the speed of the conveyer.
If the plane were moving farwards on the conveyer, that would mean that its wheels were turning faster.
It is a FACT that "the conveyer is EXACTLY matching the speed of the plane".
It doesnt say how, why, or if it likes to be on the stupid thing. It just says that it does!
There fore, it is a FACT that the plane did not, is not, and will not move forward, OR GET LIFT...
Are you guys all on crack
?
If the plane were moving backwards on the conveyer, that would mean that its wheels were turning slower then the speed of the conveyer.
If the plane were moving farwards on the conveyer, that would mean that its wheels were turning faster.
It is a FACT that "the conveyer is EXACTLY matching the speed of the plane".
It doesnt say how, why, or if it likes to be on the stupid thing. It just says that it does!
There fore, it is a FACT that the plane did not, is not, and will not move forward, OR GET LIFT...
Are you guys all on crack
?If your answer to the stated question is "No. It will not take off!", then I accept your bet.
87we410877
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2005
And another thing. If you had a big fan that would match the forward speed of the aircraft and increase the airflow over the lifting surfaces as the plane increased thrust at equal amounts thus rendering the aircraft stationary, yes it would take off. Its like flying a piper cub on a windy day. If the wind is higher than your forward flight, you will actually be flying backwards yet still have lift. Go throw a paper airplane into the wind and see what happens. But again, on a tredmill it wont fly.
87we410877
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2005
Deal. What do i win tho? And i keep thinking of more reasons this wont work haha. Say a hang glider has to be movin 40 kts to take off and theoretically a man can run that fast. Put that guy on a treadmill with a hang glider and crank it to 40kts. Will he take off? lmao. Maybe after he sweats to death and goes to heaven but thats about it.
lemme hear some reasons it will take off.
Imagine a plane is sitting on a massive conveyor belt, as wide and as long as a runway. The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the plane, moving in the opposite direction. Can the plane take off?
This is the question you are answering, "No. It will not takeoff!" Correct?
Alright I'll jump in with my opinion and some insight for the other side.
First, The plane will take off. Every bit of the confusion lies in whether or not the plane can move forward in relation to the rest of the earth with a treadmill acting against it. Because we all know that it needs moving air to take off. No air movement: no takeoff. HOWEVER most of the "no" crowd thinks that most of the "yes" crowd thinks that it will remain stationary in relation to the earth and take off somehow. BUT they aren't taking into account that the plane CAN continue to move forward IN RELATION TO THE REST OF THE EARTH even with the treadmill acting against it. Plane wheels have no gears and no power. They are like crazy wheels on a shopping cart. And if you had a shopping cart on a long treadmill you could easily walk beside it and push it from one end clear to the other even if the treadmill tries to double your speed. You end up with shopping cart wheels that are traveling on the treadmill at twice the rate that you are walking beside it, but the only extra force required is the force to overcome the extra friction in the wheels. Unless you are a big ***** (and jet engines aren't) you can easily overcome the treadmill friction. shopping cart moving forward = plane moving forward. plane moving forward = plane getting air past the wings. plane getting air past the wings = plane taking off. Tell me what part of that equation you don't agree with and we can talk about it from there. I'm not going to call anyone names here but if you think it through you will eventually agree that it can take off. However very few people are going to admit they were ever wrong about it (even though i will openly admit it) so they will blame the methods used in the test and like i said before this will still be debated after the second coming of jesus (if he exists). And there is no way to get the treadmill to folllow the plane's speed EXACTLY so I will bet my grand national on the fact that this debate is only going to get worse after the episode of mythbusters airs.
First, The plane will take off. Every bit of the confusion lies in whether or not the plane can move forward in relation to the rest of the earth with a treadmill acting against it. Because we all know that it needs moving air to take off. No air movement: no takeoff. HOWEVER most of the "no" crowd thinks that most of the "yes" crowd thinks that it will remain stationary in relation to the earth and take off somehow. BUT they aren't taking into account that the plane CAN continue to move forward IN RELATION TO THE REST OF THE EARTH even with the treadmill acting against it. Plane wheels have no gears and no power. They are like crazy wheels on a shopping cart. And if you had a shopping cart on a long treadmill you could easily walk beside it and push it from one end clear to the other even if the treadmill tries to double your speed. You end up with shopping cart wheels that are traveling on the treadmill at twice the rate that you are walking beside it, but the only extra force required is the force to overcome the extra friction in the wheels. Unless you are a big ***** (and jet engines aren't) you can easily overcome the treadmill friction. shopping cart moving forward = plane moving forward. plane moving forward = plane getting air past the wings. plane getting air past the wings = plane taking off. Tell me what part of that equation you don't agree with and we can talk about it from there. I'm not going to call anyone names here but if you think it through you will eventually agree that it can take off. However very few people are going to admit they were ever wrong about it (even though i will openly admit it) so they will blame the methods used in the test and like i said before this will still be debated after the second coming of jesus (if he exists). And there is no way to get the treadmill to folllow the plane's speed EXACTLY so I will bet my grand national on the fact that this debate is only going to get worse after the episode of mythbusters airs.
Dude....I'm trying to pick up 3 GN's here. Do you mind?
You do realize this little comparison has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that a plane is not wheel driven, right? Strap a rocket to the back of your guy running on the treadmill and watch how fast that glider takes off.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2002
It'll fly
Only if the treadmill is on a treadmill:wink: .
Only if the treadmill is on a treadmill:wink: .
Because you asked first, I will make you one HELLLL of a deal on the nicest one!
87we410877
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2005
lol. Yea there all clear. I think the question is a little hazy and tricky. We need lawyers to re-write it.
It will absolutely take off if the plane is not held stationary in relation the the ground. The only resistance the tredmill would have on the aircraft is in the wheel bearings which is almost nothing if you pack them at the aircrafts maintenence manual intervals specified within. haha. And like stated above, the wheels will just be going twice as fast.
If its held stationary, its not taking off. The above long post i think clears up some confusion. Its a somewhat tricky question thats counter-intuitive.
Based on the above will determine where my cars go. If the plane moves yes if not no.