Need Help IMMEDIATELY!!

[Triple]

I'm in the process of installing a SC3800 into my 1992 Buick Regal Grand Sport. The supercharged engine I'm using is also a 1992, from a Pontiac Bonneville.

Right now I'm just about ready to hook the engine crane up to my old 3800 still in the Regal. The ONLY thing I have left to take off is one engine-to-transaxle bolt. It's the one that actually faces towards the passenger side of the car, on the side of the engine closest to the car's interior. You can't get to it from up top, and you can't get to it from either wheel well.

How in the hell am I supposed to get this damn bolt out? I'm getting pretty pissed, since this all I have left before I can take this old crappy engine out and start having fun with the new one.

If you can help, please do! Thanks in advance!

 

[T-Keith]

Ok you'll need a 20" extension or in my case 6 3" and 6" extensions for your ratchet. You must get it from the pass. side. Slide the ratchet and extensions between the engine and tranny. You'll have to align it by looking from the drivers side, so another person would be helpful. Although I did it alone.

I hope your swapping the computer too.

 

[Triple]

No, I hadn't planned on swapping the computer. I was told by ACE Conversions that the two engines-- naturally aspirated and supercharged-- both use the same harness and the only difference in the computer is one interchangable chip. Run a wire pair to boost control and swap in the factory chip from a supercharged model into my computer, and supposedly I'll be all set. Is there more to it than that?

 

[terryk]

Right, both use the 16141470 ECM. Only difference is that EGR coil #1 wire drives the boost control solenoid. The EGR only uses 2 coils on the SC engine.

 

[T-Keith]

I guess that could be true, same year and all. I just wanted to make sure you weren't just trying to run it with your stock computer. Sounds like a good project, let us know if you get that bolt.

 

[Triple]

Well, the old engine is finally out. There was no way to get that damn bolt from the passenger side wheel-well. Even if there was, a 20-inch extention wouldn't have been anywhere near long enough. I had one just over thirty inches, and it still wouldn't reach. So, I had to just lift the engine way the hell up off its mounts with a floor jack until I could just take the exhaust manifold off, then get to that bolt from the top. I thought I was finally ready to pull her when I discovered another bracket attaching the engine and tranny way over by the passenger-side wheel. That was just as big a bitch to get to, but once I had that disconnected, the engine slid right out and the nightmare was finally over.

Now I face a different dilema. The supercharged 3800 I have came from a '92 Bonneville, and I'm putting it into a '92 Regal. The mounting is completely different between the mid-size and full-size GM's, and I didn't know that. Switching mounts (and mount brackets) was easy enough, but that also entails swapping just about all the bracketry on the front of the engine. The power steering pump, the alternator, everything-- it's all mounted differently between the old 3800 and the supercharged one. Swapping all the old bracketry to the new engine isn't the problem, but I'm worried that the serpentine belt won't fit around both the supercharger and all the old routing. Also, swapping the old bracketry onto the new engine will eliminate one mounting point for the supercharger itself.

Any ideas? The engine won't fit in the car without all its original mounts and brackets, so I don't have the option of just leaving the new stuff on it.

 

[T-Keith]

I was able to get the bolt on both my car and my girlfriend's Riv, it just takes a long exension and a bit of time.

As for the mount, that's odd that they are diiferent. I went the other way, W-body to H-body, and had no problems, even though the engines were 10 years apart. I thought the W-body mounts would be well out of the way. I still have the two from the 97 GP here if they'd help. Maybe you need to use different mount all together. I'll try and get a pic ASAP.

 

[Triple]

Well, I was able to swap the motor mounts from the old engine to the new one pretty easy. So now the engine should slip into the car just fine.

However...

The supercharger is right in the way of where the alternator used to be mounted. This is turning into way bigger a mess than I ever imagined it would. To make the engine fit without hitting the crossmember, I need to use the oil filter mount from the original engine (which is way different than the mount from the new engine). However, the old oil filter mount won't fit on the new engine without swapping the old alternator and power steering pump/resevoir mount. When I put that mount on the new engine, it comes so close to the supercharger pulley that there's no room to actually put the alternator on!

What the hell?!

You took your engine out of a smaller car (Grand Prix) and put it into a larger one (Lesabre), so your bigger engine compartment probably allowed for these things. I'm doing it just the other way around, and my smaller Regal just doesn't have the space for all those big-ass Bonneville brackets. I did not plan on having to cut or fabricate anything for this swap-- I thought that this was about as straight-forward a project as I could find. Going through all this trouble for a lousy 205 horsepower...

Again, anyone who has any suggestions, please write in!

 

[Triple]

Well, believe it or not, I actually had the engine in the car tonight, minus all the bracketry on the front of it. I didn't think that the oil filter mount from the supercharged engine was going to clear the subframe of the Regal, but once I had actually lowered the engine in there I saw that it would fit after all. However, the oil filter now fits right into a pocket in the subframe when the engine is completely lowered in. This means that whenever I want to give the car an oil change, I'll have to unfasten the motor mounts and jack the engine up a few inches just to have room to put a new oil filter on.

Using the factory oil filter mount will let me use all the original bracketry, though, so the supercharger will no longer be in the way of the alternator and such. However, there's very little room between the engine and firewall, and it looks like there might not be enough room to fit the power steering pump. I'll just have to wait and see when I actually try it out tomorrow night.

Things may be looking up. Finally.

Hey, Keith, I love the looks of those T-type Lesabres. Do you have any pictures of it posted anywhere on the web? Especially pictures of it with the hood open?

 

[T-Keith]

You may b3e able to use a oil filter bracket from a Riviera or APV, they are different. The Riv points more toward the middle of the car and the van one points back.

Thanks for the compliment, check out my web-site http://www.lesabrettype.f2s.com I have plenty of pics, and I have lots of room in my engine compartment, it is really nice.

 

[Triple]

Okay, new problem--

When I was draining the old oil out of the supercharged engine the other night, it came out really green for the first few seconds. This leads me to believe that there was obviously some coolant in my oil pan.

The thing is is that this engine has never even been in a car. It's been run a few times, but it has spent it's entire life on an engine stand, since the early 90's.

Is there anything other than a blown head gasket that could dump antifreeze into my oil pan like this? I just got this engine all buttoned up and ready to drop in, and now I may have tear it back down to replace head gaskets.

If there's something I'm just not thinking of (something a little less serious, maybe), please let me know.

 

[terryk]

The supercharger oil is a seperate reservoir in the nose drive. Green is normal with age. Get a new bottle from GM "GM Supercharger Oil". One bottle is all it takes, but get two. About $7/bottle.

The engine oil and SC oil are not a common source.

Terry

 

[terryk]

I've been through all of this on an S1 swap into my 86 Olds Ciera GT.

While I had a custom oil filter adapter made to allow for a remote filter and cooler, the GM PN 24508440 should work. This adapter brings the filter out lower on the adpater and it clears the pulley (goes under it). The sender comes out on the side too rather than the top.

The Toronado adpater will work but with some grinding depending on your motor mounts. It places the filter between the trans and engine. I don't have the PN handy.

You should check the 24508440 and make sure works, but I think it will.

 

[Triple]

This green oil I'm talking about came out of my oil pan, not the supercharger itself. It was odd looking, though-- usually when there's coolant in the oil, it stays sort of separated looking, since oil and water can't really mix into one another. This stuff, though, was literally like green oil. I've never seen anything quite like this before, even with really old oil.

I'm just going to use the factory oil filter mount from the Bonneville. It clears the subframe (or fits down into it, more like), so the engine will fit okay now. I'll just have to jack the engine up a few inches every time I want to give the thing an oil change.

 

[terryk]

Sorry, I'm so used to people talking about the green SC oil that I jumped to that.

Terry

 

[Triple]

NEW PROBLEM!

I was just about ready to drop the engine in for good, and I happened to notice two small holes in the intake manifold, one on each end. The hole on the side of the intake with the throttle body is threaded, and the hole on the side with the supercharger pulley is smooth. I have no idea what these lead to or what is supposed to flow through them, since there are already coolant hoses connected to the intake. All I do know is that I can't proceed any further with this until I figure out what in the hell I'm supposed to do about these holes. The "smooth" hole is behind the bracket for the alternator and power steering pump, so if something needs to be bolted over this hole, I have to do it before I mount this bracket back on to the engine. And I can't drop the engine in until this bracket is mounted. Yet another viscious cycle!

I've actually had just about enough of this project. Spending two weeks trying to finish a swap that should have taken about three days has convinced me that I'm just not cut out for this crap, and that I should probably stick with my motorcycling.

That said, if there isn't a simple solution to this, I am now offering this car up for sale. I would consider offers around $3000 for the complete car, the old 3800, and the never-been-in-a-car supercharged 3800. I also have the wiring harness (also new) for the supercharged engine that would be included as well. The new engine also has a spanky new starter and air conditioning compressor. It's just a project in need of finishing, by someone who's more adept at such things.

 

[SubZero350]

The smooth hole is for the heater core supply line. the threaded hole is for a coolant temp sensor or guage sender.

Change your oil filter mount to one that is for a 3.0L 85 or 86 Grand Am. This will only allow you to use a short style PF47 filter, but will put it quite litterally next to the oil drain plug and will clear all frame rails.

You need to put the SC assy drive system back onto your SC engine. The heater supply line is in the bracket assy. You cannot run a non-SC drive assy with an SC motor because there are two seperate belts.

Going to the SC assy setup will present a problem for you when hooking up the power steering pump in its new location. You will need to get out to a salvage yard and grab power steering lines off of any 3800 Series II W-body 96 and newer.

If you plan on using the W-body computer with the SC engine, I am not sure if it will work. The W-body computer is an engine compartment mounted one, while the SC computer is supposed to mounted inside the car. I'm not sure if the internals are the same like the 7730/7727 style, but you might want to check with someone who has actually tried it or you might have a wiring mess on your hands.

It would be possible to mount an interior computer in the engine compartment as long as you seal all of the holes and seams with RTV and coat its connecters with grease.

I was successful in installing one of these engines into a Fiero in which there is less room. Your best bet when doing one of these installations is to lift the body off of the cradle. If you are careful, you don't need a lift, just some big jack stands and a cherry picker and a lot of patience. In the end, it will go a lot smoother.