Never meet your heroes! '86 Grand National

[Jon Early]

First of all, thank you everyone for the suggestions on defeating my pet mice. I think they got the message because I trapped at least five, and all they kept taking the poison. I haven't seen any since mid-winter.

There are some small updates to the car as well. I was scrolling on facebook and came across an ad for a "rebuilt" UX1 radio with added AUX input. After getting it installed and checking how everything functions I think I paid way too much for it, but I'm still happy I have it.

It's not really in amazing shape either, but most of the blemishes should be unnoticeable once it's in the car.

Ount with old.

In with new.

I bought two NOS rear deck speakers from The Parts Place since mine were blown out, and tested this thing out. The tape player doesn't really work like I hoped which blows. I hate when ads interrupt an album. However the bluetooth function is seamless and sounds crisp which was the main goal. The radio still sounds just as crappy as it did on my old radio. Is this just typical of these cars with power antennas?

I'll have to take a picture at night when I can. Either the "rebuilder didn't replace the burnt out bulbs or there just aren't a lot of lights in this thing! I might end up needing to do my own surgery and rebuild this unit myself. If this is really the only back lighting it came with then new owners had to be pretty disappointed with this thing. It's also pretty annoying how sunken the clock is on this compared to my old amber display. The top row of segments aren't visible unless I hunch down or recline the seat! Again, I'm still really happy to have it. It looks cool which is the best part of driving a GN, and this radio still has more functionality than my old unit. Time to smile and enjoy.

Last weekend I had some nice weather and ambition, so it was time to knock out the body bushings.

I followed the directions on gnttype.org. It was pretty helpful, but I would add a couple steps and disclaimers.

I don't know how necessary the big washers were that came with my Summit kit, but I put them in there. I'm happy its done. The car handles much better and the annoying clunks are gone! I'm noticing less KR, but it's not completely gone.

Of course the GNX bushings were added as well.

Fast forward to yesterday. Easter festivities were complete, and the weather was a nice again. I wanted to finally remove this terrible ancient exhaust system.

First thing I noticed while I was in there was that I had a fuel feed leak! Once I got the tail pipes removed I tightened up the hose clamps and moved on. That might help me a little!

 

[Jon Early]

A scrapper will enjoy this. Not only were the mufflers packed full of rust, but they were chambered. I'm really hopeful that the Pypes system does me a lot of good.

Along with the Pypes system I found at the Nats, I bought this 304 stainless cutout. I didn't notice until I had it it side by side with my existing test pipe, but it's not something I'm willing to put on my car even if it would fit.

This thing would be the bottleneck of my exhaust system. I'm not sure why they constructed it this way, but it's pretty crappy. I can only imagine this was designed to fit a certain downpipe and connect with a stock exhaust. even the final opening is pretty small. Oh well. I started the car up with the open down pipe, and hated how it sounded, so I don't think I'm missing anything!

Following the Pypes directions was a little tough because they only have one direction sheet for a bunch of different systems. I finally got the Y-pipe to slide part way into the mufflers, but they won't go in far enough to mount on the front hanger.

I ran out of light so, I zip tied it up for now and pulled the car back in the garage. I'll have to play with it again later, but it's frustrating that this is supposed to be such a great fitting exhaust and there doesn't seem to be any play left in slip joints.

I'm sure I'll figure it out.

 

[granitestategn]

Hi Jon. I was looking at some of the older pictures in this thread and it looks like the steering column is not centered in the dash opening. Mine has been like that forever and I was wondering if they all came that way. The center of the steering column on mine definitely points left of center of my body. This is exaggerated by the fact that both of my front seats lean toward the center of the car. It cam from the factory with a gangster lean.

 

[Jon Early]

Hi Jon. I was looking at some of the older pictures in this thread and it looks like the steering column is not centered in the dash opening. Mine has been like that forever and I was wondering if they all came that way. The center of the steering column on mine definitely points left of center of my body. This is exaggerated by the fact that both of my front seats lean toward the center of the car. It cam from the factory with a gangster lean.

I have no idea. I noticed that but never tried to do anything about. I have no reason to believe it's been messed with though. I just assume that's the way the car was built.

 

[granitestategn]

I know mine came from the factory crooked. I might see if there's room to move it a little.

 

[626gn]

Hi Jon. I was looking at some of the older pictures in this thread and it looks like the steering column is not centered in the dash opening. Mine has been like that forever and I was wondering if they all came that way.

Common problem, many came from the factory that way. Good ole 80's manufacturing

 

[granitestategn]

Common problem, many came from the factory that way. Good ole 80's manufacturing

Yeah, mine is a very late 87 GN and they were really letting a lot slide. I was looking at my half painted block with the custom overspray on the intake manifold. I could go on and on, but it gets depressing after a while.

 

[~JM~]

...the custom overspray on the intake manifold....

Mine has that. Right up front.

 

[Jon Early]

I haven't had time to play with the exhaust much, but I did get some packages. One being NOS fender badges. I was a bit disappointed to find they don't look quite the same as the ones that are already on the car. I'm might run them anyway because the green corrosion drives me crazy. I'm curious about what others have seen. Is the extra flake a common thing? I think the yellow looks a little more orange because of it. It also looks like the chrome is a bit sloppier in places. Is it possible that they are not in fact NOS despite being in GM bags?

 

[Jon Early]

Update time. I ended up returning those badges back to the seller because the chrome was flaking off in the bag. They would end up looking worse than what I already have in a hurry.

Now to finish what I already started. I was able to make the exhaust fit but it required me to cut the inlet side of the driver side tail pipe shorter. From there I was able to wrestle the exhaust into all its mounting points. I'm very disappointed in the fitment of Pypes system of which I heard so many great reviews. However, I will say that it at least looks great now that it's in.

My final test fit did not include the gasket though, so I almost put that in there and torqued everything down before remembering that I had new poly trans and crossmember mounts from H&R. I figured it's time to get those knocked out.

I can't put this nasty thing back in though. All that nasty grime and undercoating has to go.

It took me a couple hours of spraying degreaser, letting it sit, scrubbing, washing, and repeating, but I finally ended up with a nice clean crossmember.

The exhaust hanger needs the lip ground down to fit the new mount adapter.

VHT Chassis/Roll Bar satin black

Complete!

Unfortunately I won't get a chance to test drive and truly find out how I like the new sound until the rain stops. I can already tell that it's very different though. The jingles and rattles are gone, and the tone has changed a bit. I'm just glad that the rust-filled chambered mufflers are in the trash where they belong. Straight through is the only performance muffler design in my opinion! Let's keep our fingers crossed for a smoother running car.

 

[Jon Early]

I had been holding on to these badges for years. When I first got them I was too scared about screwing up the placement, but I finally got sick of seeing the bare bulge! I looked up the measurements, slapped them on, and now the car looks a lot more complete. I should have sucked it up and just did it as soon as they arrived!

Don't get me wrong. I love these cars. I've wanted a GN since the first time I remember seeing one as a young kid. They make me feel like no other car does when I see one going down the road. However, I never really fell in love with MY Grand National, and I'm starting to learn why.

I simply haven't made any great memories in this car. Almost all the trips I've taken in it were by myself on the way to club events or the Nats. A couple times my girlfriend (now wife) was with me, but I'm always picking this car apart when I'm driving it. It's never running right so I haven't been able to beat on it much. I get a lot of satisfaction from the repairs and upgrades I do, but I've felt the same way about fixing $2000 beaters. This car is very nice, and with the last couple parts I've thrown on, I can almost call it done. I think the evaporator needs to be replaced to get the AC going again, and the tune needs to be dialed in. Beyond that, it's exactly what I want it to be. But then what? Continue to be super critical and not drive it? I'm not going to start daily driving it or adding power either. I think that would ruin it.

I enjoy the satisfaction from successful repairs and upgrades more than I enjoy driving. I love the attention the GN gets on the street and local cruise nights, but it was already so good when I got it that I don't feel like I can take credit for any of it. Most of the time it's just sitting in my tiny garage where I'm always tip-toing around it, and trying to keep the dust off it. That or I'm trying to coordinate storage at my in-laws barn where it's not exactly climate or mouse controlled. I refuse to bring the GN back there after all the work and money I put into it last year, so it's very much in my way and constantly reminding me of how big of a liability it could be.

I've made the very difficult decision to put this car up for sale. I'm not leaving the Buick community as it's still a huge part of me. I just think it's time to move on to another Buick (who knows, it might even be another GN) that needs my help! This car has taught me a lot, and I believe it's in far better shape now than it was when I got it. I'm not making any online listings until after Nats, but I'll have a sign in it this spring. If anyone reading this is looking to buy you can PM me here.

 

[626gn]

I had been holding on to these badges for years. When I first got them I was too scared about screwing up the placement, but I finally got sick of seeing the bare bulge! I looked up the measurements, slapped them on, and now the car looks a lot more complete. I should have sucked it up and just did it as soon as they arrived!
View attachment 398875
Don't get me wrong. I love these cars. I've wanted a GN since the first time I remember seeing one as a young kid. They make me feel like no other car does when I see one going down the road. However, I never really fell in love with MY Grand National, and I'm starting to learn why.

I simply haven't made any great memories in this car. Almost all the trips I've taken in it were by myself on the way to club events or the Nats. A couple times my girlfriend (now wife) was with me, but I'm always picking this car apart when I'm driving it. It's never running right so I haven't been able to beat on it much. I get a lot of satisfaction from the repairs and upgrades I do, but I've felt the same way about fixing $2000 beaters. This car is very nice, and with the last couple parts I've thrown on, I can almost call it done. I think the evaporator needs to be replaced to get the AC going again, and the tune needs to be dialed in. Beyond that, it's exactly what I want it to be. But then what? Continue to be super critical and not drive it? I'm not going to start daily driving it or adding power either. I think that would ruin it.

I enjoy the satisfaction from successful repairs and upgrades more than I enjoy driving. I love the attention the GN gets on the street and local cruise nights, but it was already so good when I got it that I don't feel like I can take credit for any of it. Most of the time it's just sitting in my tiny garage where I'm always tip-toing around it, and trying to keep the dust off it. That or I'm trying to coordinate storage at my in-laws barn where it's not exactly climate or mouse controlled. I refuse to bring the GN back there after all the work and money I put into it last year, so it's very much in my way and constantly reminding me of how big of a liability it could be.

I've made the very difficult decision to put this car up for sale. I'm not leaving the Buick community as it's still a huge part of me. I just think it's time to move on to another Buick (who knows, it might even be another GN) that needs my help! This car has taught me a lot, and I believe it's in far better shape now than it was when I got it. I'm not making any online listings until after Nats, but I'll have a sign in it this spring. If anyone reading this is looking to buy you can PM me here.

This has been a great thread, sad to see it come to an end. Hope you get another and stay a part of this community.

 

[Jon Early]

This has been a great thread, sad to see it come to an end. Hope you get another and stay a part of this community.

Don't worry. I won't be going anywhere. I still have the 3.8 turbo Camaro, and Buicks will always be my jam. I have plans to build another Buick with a turbo 3.8 whenever time and space allow.

 

[1986 Buick GX1]

I had been holding on to these badges for years. When I first got them I was too scared about screwing up the placement, but I finally got sick of seeing the bare bulge! I looked up the measurements, slapped them on, and now the car looks a lot more complete. I should have sucked it up and just did it as soon as they arrived!
View attachment 398875
Don't get me wrong. I love these cars. I've wanted a GN since the first time I remember seeing one as a young kid. They make me feel like no other car does when I see one going down the road. However, I never really fell in love with MY Grand National, and I'm starting to learn why.

I simply haven't made any great memories in this car. Almost all the trips I've taken in it were by myself on the way to club events or the Nats. A couple times my girlfriend (now wife) was with me, but I'm always picking this car apart when I'm driving it. It's never running right so I haven't been able to beat on it much. I get a lot of satisfaction from the repairs and upgrades I do, but I've felt the same way about fixing $2000 beaters. This car is very nice, and with the last couple parts I've thrown on, I can almost call it done. I think the evaporator needs to be replaced to get the AC going again, and the tune needs to be dialed in. Beyond that, it's exactly what I want it to be. But then what? Continue to be super critical and not drive it? I'm not going to start daily driving it or adding power either. I think that would ruin it.

I enjoy the satisfaction from successful repairs and upgrades more than I enjoy driving. I love the attention the GN gets on the street and local cruise nights, but it was already so good when I got it that I don't feel like I can take credit for any of it. Most of the time it's just sitting in my tiny garage where I'm always tip-toing around it, and trying to keep the dust off it. That or I'm trying to coordinate storage at my in-laws barn where it's not exactly climate or mouse controlled. I refuse to bring the GN back there after all the work and money I put into it last year, so it's very much in my way and constantly reminding me of how big of a liability it could be.

I've made the very difficult decision to put this car up for sale. I'm not leaving the Buick community as it's still a huge part of me. I just think it's time to move on to another Buick (who knows, it might even be another GN) that needs my help! This car has taught me a lot, and I believe it's in far better shape now than it was when I got it. I'm not making any online listings until after Nats, but I'll have a sign in it this spring. If anyone reading this is looking to buy you can PM me here.

I got tired of waxing around the hood emblems so I took them off in ‘88. I recently acquired some nice emblems to adhere a magnetic strip to so I can stick them on for car shows and remove them for polishing/ waxing. We’ll see how that goes.

 

[Jon Early]

I got tired of waxing around the hood emblems so I took them off in ‘88. I recently acquired some nice emblems to adhere a magnetic strip to so I can stick them on for car shows and remove them for polishing/ waxing. We’ll see how that goes.

That would be slick! They are definitely a pain to clean around. The previous owner had to have this hood repainted at one point, and instead of getting new badges he tried to super glue the originals back on. My rag ended up catching the 3 bad enough to rip it off. Replacing the badges with new ones hid most of that glue mess pretty well.

 

[Jon Early]

The Grand National emotional roller coaster goes up and down, up and down!

The amount of work I was putting into this thing didn't seem like it was paying off. I hadn't made any great memories in my GN because I was always upset with the way it was running, and my prime years had already passed by the time I bought it. When I went ahead with the mechanical restoration last year, I thought I was close enough to taste a finally sorted car.... Then the AC blew a hole and the power antenna broke.... Then I fixed the power antenna, replaced the body bushings, got the stereo working better, and still had something goofy going on with the engine and AC. I was very demotivated to figure the car out the rest of the way because I knew it would just break somewhere else, and keep the cycle going. I've never had proper storage for this car either, so mice have had their way with it even since all the nice prep and paint work I did.

Feeling very emotionally detached from the car and tired of chasing my tail, I listed it for sale. I thought I was going to appreciate having the money in the bank more than having this liability on my hands, but when push came to shove I realized my mistake. A guy whose beautifully restored '87 was rear ended and totalled was looking for a new one and messaged me about buying my car. He seemed very serious and able to fork the money. That was when I finally felt the attachment. The idea that somebody else would own this car was not something I could stomach. I removed the ad and apologized to the would-be buyer. Even if I got a new GN, it would never be THIS GN.

Just like that, I was all better and just happy with things I had. I learned that it doesn't pay to be supercritical of the car. You just have to appreciate it for what it is. With that in mind I was motivated to keep working on it, but also drive it a little more often. First item on the list was to get the thing running right. I had to figure out why it was knocking. I hooked the laptop up to the powerlogger and cruised around some unexplored back roads for two hours. I had truly forgotten that Indiana had some fun roads and beautiful scenery.

The car was imperfect, but it was pretty dang fun. While it started off as a purposeful drive, it turned out to be a couple hours of pure therapy and bonding time between me and the car. I look forward to taking my son on some back road adventures some day.

While I had a great time I was still taking note of the things I needed to look into. Part of the reason why I had so much fun was because I was observing much less KR than usual and I was able to just gun it everywhere. That makes a lot of sense though. I was only making 16psi of boost.

I asked a couple questions to Eric Marshall who got my head back on straight. I knew I was only own for the boost issue but my fueling should be good too. Something physical was going to have to be wrenched on. First order of business was to check the state and welfare of the fuel pressure regulator.

I'm not sure if 3 psi low is going to get my O2 mV out of the 400s at WOT, but it was certainly worth adjusting! I bumped the base pressure up to 43, and decided to go for a drive. Once it was warmed up, I stepped on it and was greeted with a neck snapping 0 psi of boost. What the heck could have happened between now and yesterday?? I took the car home for a further look.

The coupler coming off the turbo was barely hanging on and the clamp was already over the lip. I would be thrilled if this was really the whole problem all along.

No dice though. I still had no boost, unless I brake torqued the hell out of it where I saw about 4psi. Considering that the wastegate actuator alone should be able to produce more than this, I had to look at the dreaded wastegate.

Big sigh. I do not have the emotional energy to go down this road again. It's not as bad as it was when I took this car apart last year, but I'm still really bummed that the couple days of work I spent unsticking the arm didn't last. I wanted to try one last thing to make sure I wasn't crazy. I wrenched the the wastegate to the fully closed position and went for a drive.

Yep. I'm crazy.

STILL no boost! How on earth does this happen?? I'm either deaf and unable to smell a massive header leak, or the wastegate puck somehow broke off. I'm genuinely stunned. I think this car is trying to tell me whos the boss and punishing me for making a for sale ad. Of course it wouldn't do anything like that BEFORE picking me up a little the day before. Sheesh...

I think the goal now is to unbolt the external wastegate block off that I should now just refer to as an inspection cover, and stick a bore scope into the internal wastegate hole. I need to find out if the puck is still there and closing. If so, I'll check myself into an asylum.

 

[Jon Early]

As it turns out, I was not actually closing the the wastegate like I thought. My bore scope shows that the geometry of the puck allows for scrub. You kind sorta see that the puck was getting stuck on the turbo!

As I'm writing this, I'm realizing that slapping a thick gasket between the turbo and downpipe would help fix this, but my turbo surface is so rough that I don't think it'll seal. A modified remflex will be my next move if this doesn't work.

Until then, I'm going to be hoping that hogging the hole on the turbo a little bit was the better move.

Here's the real kicker though.

Since I could get the puck all the way closed, the wastegate actuator was then too long by 1/4"! Had I really had this issue all along? Why did I always have boost until Friday? My only theory is that running lean this whole time was enough heat to light off the turbo anyway, and adding more fuel was enough for the leak to become a bigger problem. I don't know how else this would happen.

I've been waiting for RTV to cure on the downpipe, so I'll be test driving this thing tonight rain or shine. I don't have time to wait. Since the puck is now actually home, I know I should get to full boost at least once! If the car continues to make full boost I'll leave it alone. If I get full boost only once, it's probably stuck again and in need of a gasket to put the elbow away from the turbo.

Luckily I live next to a couple big open parking lots that should be relatively safe to test in. Wet pavement, drag radials, and boost and boost are a great recipe for incontrollable donuts!

 

[1986 Buick GX1]

My wastegate puck was hanging up on the hole after porting the hole larger to control boost creep.
I found that pulling the wastegate actuator rod out (still connected to the puck arm) while the car is running would allow it to close.
The exhaust flow out of the hole would align the puck and keep it straight.
The only time mine would catch is when I adjusted the wastegate rod while the car was shut off. If I could keep the puck closed while adjusting the rod it was ok.
It is wild how yours started doing this all of the sudden.

 

[Jon Early]

My wastegate puck was hanging up on the hole after porting the hole larger to control boost creep.
I found that pulling the wastegate actuator rod out (still connected to the puck arm) while the car is running would allow it to close.
The exhaust flow out of the hole would align the puck and keep it straight.
The only time mine would catch is when I adjusted the wastegate rod while the car was shut off. If I could keep the puck closed while adjusting the rod it was ok.
It is wild how yours started doing this all of the sudden.

I don't remember, but it's possible that I disconnected the rod to diagnose the 16psi problem. I was initially concerned about the puck arm getting seized in the elbow again. That might have been why it got stuck in the first place, but I know I only adjusted the actuator rod after discovering the stuck puck.

Wild indeed. It's great to know that the exhaust should blow the puck in a more favorable angle though!

 

[626gn]

A modified remflex will be my next move if this doesn't work.

Jon, if you'd like to experiment with a remflex gasket I'll send you one if you PM me your mailing addess. Years ago I used it for literally a few minutes then took it off. I have no use for it.


Glad you decided to keep her and continue this thread!